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the Good, the Bad and the Ugly; theSliderWhizperer’s M15 - GAME CHANGER SLIDERS

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Old 10-23-2014, 11:33 PM   #49
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Re: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly; theSliderWhizperer’s M15 - GAME CHANGER SLIDERS

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Originally Posted by Trojan Man
It took all of two games to figure out that these are absolutely untenable at All Pro. The sack problem has not been reduced or controlled at all in my view. It's the same old problem that plagues all All Pro sets.

The first game saw 5 sacks, all by DTs and 2 on screens. The second saw 6 sacks in 3 quarters. I shut the game off before I could finish because it was clear that the CPU QB AI had not been improved.

The problem with All Pro is that the CPU QB AI causes the QB to hold the ball too long. There's no way around that, and no combination of pass blocking and coverage sliders can fix that.

The good news for the Whisperer is that this set is potentially redeemable as an All Madden set with some modifications. I've tested out a version with reduced CPU run and pass blocking and modified HUM run defense. The results are much better than All Pro, imo.

Appreciate your comments!

Unfortunately you and I have a different interpretation of what the sack glitch is and I believe this is part of the problem regarding tackling the sack glitch issue.

As I indicated in my post regarding defining the sack glitch, sacks as a result of a screen pass play, I DO NOT define, within the same category as the sack that occurs when the CPU QB AI holds the ball. Why? Because for the HUM QB, the heat on a screen play ALSO causes dumb sacks. So, does that mean that the HUM has a glitch in his brain for allowing himself to be sacked on a screen? Don't answer that, because some HUM's do have a glitch in the brain so IT IS possible that they allowed themselves to be sacked by the CPU DT coming up the middle.

Separately, the QB's AWR rating, QB pocket awareness (Trigger Happy, Paranoid, Ideal, Oblivious, etc) trait, the coverage of the defense, the type of play called by the CPU AI (fly routes on a 3 and 4 from their own 35 and the HUM is OBVIOUSLY calling a full out blitz, no way for play to develop) all also contribute to sacks.

So here is the quandary... On screen pass sacks, is it the glitch or something else? What my eyeballs see in slo-mo is that the reason this is happening is NOT BECAUSE the CPU QB holds onto the ball too long, but rather because the syncing of the screen pass animation is whacked. If you slo-mo a screen pass sack, the screen never even gets a chance to develop before the DT's are on the QB's _ss (rhymes with GAS)! This includes the HUM QB as well. In fact, over 50% of the time the RB has not even gotten out of the pocket area before the DT is on the QB. This goes for the HUM screen passes as well. If it was ONLY the CPU QB sack glitch in play, then the HUM screen passes would be as smooth as silk to pull off and everybody that has played M15 knows that screen plays are broken.

Here is another one... If the DT sacks Geno Smith after the pocket held for at least 2.25 seconds, is it the glitch, a coverage sack, bad play calling by the AI, poor blocking scheme pocket collapsed too soon, the CPU has poor QB awareness and/or the pocket awareness trait?

Now, I concur that M15 has more sacks than previous Maddens by a tune of 165% by season's end, so there is merit that SOME sacks are caused by the CPU QB holding onto the football too long, however simply saying I see a lot of sacks so the sack glitch is not addressed is too simplistic to say it's the same old problem for All-Pro mode....Remember, I am not advocating All-Pro mode, All-Pro mode was a function of how you should build your sliders to avoid the 'roided up nature of All-Madden and the completely simplified and watered down nature of Pro.

What I advocate is that ONCE your ALL-PRO set cooperates for solid game play and if your game skill dictates it, MOVE UP to ALL-Madden mode and tame the run game's blocking since it is skewed to favor the CPU in All-Pro mode. This is in fact what I plan on doing. But there is no doubt that how I define the sack glitch problem HAS CERTAINLY been addressed by this slider mix, and the proof is in the data that has come in from other OS'ers posting their game info, whose sack totals don't represent your experience.

Just take a look at your first game, 2 of your 5 sacks, I would not even count as attributed to the "sack glitch" issue since they came off screen pass (totally different issue) plays. The other three sacks by the DT's would lead to investigate the who was the center for the CPU's team and who was the QB. Also, how many rushers came at the passer? Was it 5 rushers, and the DT broke loose? If this is the case, the issue is more than likely that the CPU's play call took MUCH too long to develop (which by the way in the NFL will more often than not, lead to a sack from an interior lineman) the pocket could not sustain, or possibly the DT sacks were coverage sacks.

In your second game, I wonder how often you dialed up 5 man+ blitzes? My data supports that when I rushed 5 man+ blitzes or more, some CPU QB's were more susceptible than other to the dreaded, "holding the ball too long" sack. Then again when tested against Brady or Peyton, they would consistently burn the blitz with a cheap safety valve pass for 4-6 yards.

Again the bottom line is that defining what is the root cause of every sack is critical to looking for an effective band-aid to address the lack of QB awareness, when in fact the root cause happens to be the QB awareness issue.

Once again, truly appreciate your feedback.
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Old 10-23-2014, 11:35 PM   #50
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Re: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly; theSliderWhizperer’s M15 - GAME CHANGER SLIDERS

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Originally Posted by theSliderWhisperer
Dillon245:

Just wonderin' which team you were in this matchup?
I am New England in my week 3 CFM
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Old 10-23-2014, 11:44 PM   #51
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Re: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly; theSliderWhizperer’s M15 - GAME CHANGER SLIDERS

The sack issue cannot be fixed solely by sliders. Sliders are just too inconsistent.... The root of the issue is buried within the rosters themselves. I personally think the Ideal trait for "senses pressure" has a lot to do with it. I also think the defenses in the game, with the default rosters are extremely overrated. Attributes such as block shedding, speed, acceleration, strength, etc. are set way too high.

Back to the ideal trait... I think it is either broken or not working correctly. I've done some testing with it, and the QB performance at that setting is no better than it is at oblivious. My suggestion would be to modify the senses pressure trait for all quarterbacks to trigger happy, and let the force passes tendency determine the identity of the QB. This seems to work well.

That said, this can't apply to drafted QBs.... sadly
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Old 10-23-2014, 11:45 PM   #52
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Re: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly; theSliderWhizperer’s M15 - GAME CHANGER SLIDERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by booker21
I was going to post my impressions exactly that qb acc for human is too easy. But I guess it is pointless. I see the open poster believe that he has all figure out and I don't think he will be doing any changes by feedback.

We have different expectations. 9 sacks in a game is not exactly what I call "controlled". Anyways I don't want to be that guy since he said that he was not certain to share sliders because he will have to deal post like this one. So I will just stop here. Good you take your time to share your sliders thought. Happy gaming.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
Uuuh who has it all figured out? I doubt that your expectations are different than those of the OS community, but who know's they could be.

And for the record, never has there been any mention that I was hesitant to post my insights because of posts like yours. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt anyone.... I think, at least I hope so.

I was hesitant to host a thread because my work schedule is weird and gets extremely hectic very quickly, one of the downsides of the entertainment/advertising biz. Presently, I am in pre-production for a project so I have some time, but once production starts, sayonara Whizperer...

Furthermore, this is a BETA slider set, the name implying that changes are to come to improve the baseline.

And I am not sure "What" guy you don't want to be, but I can assure you, you are not "That" guy, because I don't know "Of" the guy...

Wait... "Who's" on First? Because I think, "What's" on second...



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Last edited by theSliderWhisperer; 10-23-2014 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 10-24-2014, 01:25 AM   #53
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Re: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly; theSliderWhizperer’s M15 - GAME CHANGER SLIDERS

Jets 24 Chargers 13 CFM Geno 26-33-264-2TD-1INT-78%-AYPA-8.0-Long Pass 40yrds, Rivers 24-33-261-72%-1TD-AYPA-7.9-Long Pass 45, Rushing Ivory 22-96-1TD-AVG-4.3, Powell 3-9 Chargers Matthews 19-117-AVG-6.1, Woodhead 1-8, Total Fumbles 1, Jets D 4 sacks Chargers D 2 sacks =Total 6 sacks , Total INT -1, Total Plays 122 Having Percy Harvin on the Jets helps this Offense , Just hope come sunday it does IRL LOL

Last edited by HC0023; 10-24-2014 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 10-24-2014, 01:51 AM   #54
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Re: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly; theSliderWhizperer’s M15 - GAME CHANGER SLIDERS

Wiz,

So i wanted to give you some feedback that i found very interesting. when i loaded in your sliders, i accidently went All-Madden. I already have a CFM started with GB. So my first game is against Seattle...I have tried numerous sets, but nothing realistic.
Anyways, seattle destroyed me in the 1st quarter...wilson scrambled, hit open WR, beast mode was in full form...I could not stop him....then i realized your sliders were for AP....so i decided to keep it on AM and change a few things. first I changed the cpu acc to 5, run block to same as mine, and that helped but caused sacks. So i put everything back to how it was and decided to lower the fumble on both mine and cpu to 45...i put everything back the way you originally had it but those. well it helped control the running a bit, but wilson then became very conservative and took sacks. So once again i changed everything back but my fumbles...leaving it at 45. Same results I was getting sacks and stopping the run. So i decided to but everything back to where you had it and played again.
I was getting beat by seattle in the 1st quarter 20-7...no sacks, i blitzed alot, did moves, but could not contain Wilson. The beast mode was back and i had to do everything to stop him. I was able to start making some defense plays, but i would call audibles at the line, blitz, I basically had to play flawless to stop him.
I think that the fumbles had something to do with it....the only complaint i had was that wilson was incredible and very tough to stop...i could not get a sack at all....when beast mode got outside he made my CB look like deer in headlights. I was playing as DT, DE, LB, just about everything.
So with that being said, I think these are good on AM...just need to figure out how to keep sacks low and keep the offense from scoring everytime. It could be me also....but thought i would share this.
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Old 10-24-2014, 02:04 AM   #55
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Re: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly; theSliderWhizperer’s M15 - GAME CHANGER SLIDERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by spboden
Wiz,

So i wanted to give you some feedback that i found very interesting. when i loaded in your sliders, i accidently went All-Madden. I already have a CFM started with GB. So my first game is against Seattle...I have tried numerous sets, but nothing realistic.
Anyways, seattle destroyed me in the 1st quarter...wilson scrambled, hit open WR, beast mode was in full form...I could not stop him....then i realized your sliders were for AP....so i decided to keep it on AM and change a few things. first I changed the cpu acc to 5, run block to same as mine, and that helped but caused sacks. So i put everything back to how it was and decided to lower the fumble on both mine and cpu to 45...i put everything back the way you originally had it but those. well it helped control the running a bit, but wilson then became very conservative and took sacks. So once again i changed everything back but my fumbles...leaving it at 45. Same results I was getting sacks and stopping the run. So i decided to but everything back to where you had it and played again.
I was getting beat by seattle in the 1st quarter 20-7...no sacks, i blitzed alot, did moves, but could not contain Wilson. The beast mode was back and i had to do everything to stop him. I was able to start making some defense plays, but i would call audibles at the line, blitz, I basically had to play flawless to stop him.
I think that the fumbles had something to do with it....the only complaint i had was that wilson was incredible and very tough to stop...i could not get a sack at all....when beast mode got outside he made my CB look like deer in headlights. I was playing as DT, DE, LB, just about everything.
So with that being said, I think these are good on AM...just need to figure out how to keep sacks low and keep the offense from scoring everytime. It could be me also....but thought i would share this.

Wiz appreciates your feedback... You are more on point than you can imagine...

Presently playing AM myself and the sliders hold up well, but I concur that stopping the CPU offense is unbelievably TOUGH...

But what I actually wanted to point out is how quickly you found out that these sliders are inter-dependent, and futzing with one slider causes a whole _hit (rhymes with FIT) load of bad game play issues to begin rearing their head...

The reason that Wilson is beast and sacking is impossible is not necessarily your play or defensive choices. The issue lies in the "mix" used to tame the sacks for All-Star mode.... Kind of surprises me that the OS community has picked up on what I did to tame the sack issue in All-Pro...

The Wiz is working to "de-fang" the wicked mix needed to tame the sacks in All-Pro and dial-it back, so to speak, for AM...

Possibly by Monday of next week should drop the Beta Hallow's Eve AM Slider Brew....

Stay tuned!
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Old 10-24-2014, 02:12 AM   #56
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Re: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly; theSliderWhizperer’s M15 - GAME CHANGER SLIDERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by HC0023
Jets 24 Chargers 13 CFM Geno 26-33-264-2TD-1INT-78%-AYPA-8.0-Long Pass 40yrds, Rivers 24-33-261-72%-1TD-AYPA-7.9-Long Pass 45, Rushing Ivory 22-96-1TD-AVG-4.3, Powell 3-9 Chargers Matthews 19-117-AVG-6.1, Woodhead 1-8, Total Fumbles 1, Jets D 4 sacks Chargers D 2 sacks =Total 6 sacks , Total INT -1, Total Plays 122 Having Percy Harvin on the Jets helps this Offense , Just hope come sunday it does IRL LOL

Dude, so are these bad boys working for you, or what?!?!?

The irony of course is that much like I suspected, the wicked slider mix I cobbled together IS having a tangible impact on the ridiculous amount of sacks that were showing up prior to dialing in the wicked slider mix....

Do I have the solution? No. Have I improved the All-Pro mode? I believe so.

Is the All-Pro mode for everyone? Hardly (and I am in that camp.)

The bottom line is that much like JoshC1977's slider mix also demonstrated, IF you build your brew from the pen sliders up, you have a much better shot at creating a truly acceptable slider mix for your game play.

I chose to start with All-Pro simply to avoid having the All-Madden mode, taint my work with its built in juicing impact on the game. Part one of the Wiz's mission has gone well, working on part two, AM's wicked brew...

Last edited by theSliderWhisperer; 10-24-2014 at 02:24 AM.
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