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Speed threshold broken or am I testing it wrong?

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Old 10-23-2014, 03:29 PM   #1
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Speed threshold broken or am I testing it wrong?

After a 7 year hiatus of playing madden for any other reason than to hold me over until NBA2k came out, I'm back playing it again. So I'm looking into getting back into making the game play as real as you can and Ive always started with player speed first. With madden 07 I went and edit every players speed based on an excel sheet I had from testing players 40 in practice mode. Hester was running 3.9 40s and the slowest was running almost 7.0, had to narrow the gap. It made the game play so much better So fast forward last night, I took the fasted player in the game (the rb for Tampa) and the slowest lt (Ravens) move him to te and started testing 40 times with a good ol stopwatch and speed burst pressed down. First off let me say slow is the only way to go when it comes to realistic game speed. Fastest guy on normal is running 4.0 40s and on very slow running them at around 4.8. Or so. So on slow the fastest player was always around 4.45 and the slowest was around 5.8. Pretty good out of the box with the treshold being at 50. But ideally the fastest could be a tad faster and the slowest could be a tab slower. Crank the treshold down to 0, identical times. Thinking maybe the sliders were backwards like some are on here by what I've read. So set it to 100, same times again.
So does it just not work or does it effect something else that creates a speed gap? Like cpu controlled players not sprinting or capping their sprint speed?


Last edited by JGRIPP81; 10-23-2014 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 10-23-2014, 03:49 PM   #2
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Re: Speed threshold broken or am I testing it wrong?

I believe Speed Threshold has more of an effect on LB's, TE's and RB's? The WR/DB interaction isn't really effected for some reason....

I believe one of the best ways to set speed threshold is to run stretch plays, tosses, pitches to the outside against a variety of the base defenses, cover 1, cover 2, cover 3 and cover 4; both man under and zones....

What you generally want, IMO in practice, is to get about 5 yards on outside runs, maybe more to the 5 yard plus side; reason for this is there seems to be certain effects on game play that are not present in practice, so what generally happens is you lose about a yard or so on runs in a real game, IE player play faster in a real game than in practice.

this effect happens with pass coverage too, but i cannot remember if pass coverage gets tighter or looser in real games compared to practice; maybe someone else will be along to answer that question.
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Old 10-23-2014, 07:13 PM   #3
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Re: Speed threshold broken or am I testing it wrong?

In my opinion, this slider is broken. I've left it at 50 throughout all my slider testing. I've been testing this game since release and still haven't released a slider set because once I feel like I'm close, another area for opportunity arises.
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Old 10-23-2014, 09:32 PM   #4
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Re: Speed threshold broken or am I testing it wrong?

I could be completely wrong on this. But i thought i read a post from someone that the speed threshold has more of an affect on acceleration that top speed. With it at 100 the players got to their speed faster and slower if it was at 0. Again could be completely wrong on that.
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Old 10-23-2014, 10:20 PM   #5
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Re: Speed threshold broken or am I testing it wrong?

Slider works fine, although setting it to 0 is like setting it to 100. Works well between 16 - 20
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Old 10-23-2014, 11:38 PM   #6
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Re: Speed threshold broken or am I testing it wrong?

threshold has no effect between WR's or DB's it seems.....

at 50 threshold, 0 threshold and 100 threshold; devon hester, speed 98 and a 4.41 combine real time, ran a ~4.2....

Seems to effect other players like linemen and linebackers....

from my calculations of testing times between a Devon Hester who ran a ~4.2 40 in practice mode of a streak play(real life 40 is ~4.4), and Jason Evant, spd 81 who ran a ~4.4 speed in game practice, but ran a ~4.62 40 time in real life - #1, the game is off by 2/10th of a second from real time combines - or more specifically, the players speed is rated to high....

from what I gathered from the difference between Hester and Avant is the following differences between speed rating and time - for every 1/10th of a second below the top speed of 4.2 seconds at 98/99 speed, you have to drop 10 points in speed....So it looks like this for speed to 40 time..

99 speed = 4.2
89 speed = 4.3
79 speed = 4.4
69 speed = 4.5
59 speed = 4.6
49 speed = 4.7
39 speed = 4.8
29 speed = 4.9
19 speed = 5.0
09 speed = 5.1

So, for one thing, player speed ratings are too high...the average player 40 speed by position is:


Position Time
Wide receiver 4.55
Cornerback 4.55
Running back 4.59
Safety 4.62
Outside LB 4.74
Tight End 4.77
Fullback 4.80
Inside Linebacker 4.80
Quarterback 4.87
Defensive End 4.88
Defensive Tackle 5.13
Offensive Center 5.30
Offensive Tackle 5.32
Offensive Guard 5.36

So as you can see, game speed does not come close to matching real life speed; thus a threshold of 50 is off and you really do need to lower threshold to put OL, DL, and LB's in relative relation with the WR and DB positions....As of now the OL, DL and LB's are too fast in relation to WR's and DB's.

Now the question is, how much does the speed threshold effect speed as you lower or raise...Raising brings the slower players closer to the faster players - for sim, we don't want that. So, my hypothesis to dropping threshold is that it creates a 1/10th speed difference between the WR's and DB's, and the OL, DL and LB's....

DT's per the chart above are at average 5.13 40 yard time...the range of speed in madden, minus the highest and lowest exceptions is between, 74 to 50 for DT's.....Translate that to Maddens speed chart for their 40 times between that range of 74 to 50, we are looking at DT's running 40 times close to 4.45 to 4.69....

So, lets just hypothesis that for each 10 points dropped from 50 we lower the speeds of OL.DL and LB's by 1/10th 40 time, we would have to be around a speed threshold of 10....that would give the fastest DT's a new speed rating of about a 4.85 sec. 40 time...While leaving DB's and WR's in place....

Does this make any sense to anyone else or have I gone slider bonkers?
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Old 10-24-2014, 12:13 AM   #7
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Re: Speed threshold broken or am I testing it wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S
threshold has no effect between WR's or DB's it seems.....



at 50 threshold, 0 threshold and 100 threshold; devon hester, speed 98 and a 4.41 combine real time, ran a ~4.2....



Seems to effect other players like linemen and linebackers....



from my calculations of testing times between a Devon Hester who ran a ~4.2 40 in practice mode of a streak play(real life 40 is ~4.4), and Jason Evant, spd 81 who ran a ~4.4 speed in game practice, but ran a ~4.62 40 time in real life - #1, the game is off by 2/10th of a second from real time combines - or more specifically, the players speed is rated to high....



from what I gathered from the difference between Hester and Avant is the following differences between speed rating and time - for every 1/10th of a second below the top speed of 4.2 seconds at 98/99 speed, you have to drop 10 points in speed....So it looks like this for speed to 40 time..



99 speed = 4.2

89 speed = 4.3

79 speed = 4.4

69 speed = 4.5

59 speed = 4.6

49 speed = 4.7

39 speed = 4.8

29 speed = 4.9

19 speed = 5.0

09 speed = 5.1



So, for one thing, player speed ratings are too high...the average player 40 speed by position is:





Position Time

Wide receiver 4.55

Cornerback 4.55

Running back 4.59

Safety 4.62

Outside LB 4.74

Tight End 4.77

Fullback 4.80

Inside Linebacker4.80

Quarterback4.87

Defensive End4.88

Defensive Tackle5.13

Offensive Center5.30

Offensive Tackle5.32

Offensive Guard5.36



So as you can see, game speed does not come close to matching real life speed; thus a threshold of 50 is off and you really do need to lower threshold to put OL, DL, and LB's in relative relation with the WR and DB positions....As of now the OL, DL and LB's are too fast in relation to WR's and DB's.



Now the question is, how much does the speed threshold effect speed as you lower or raise...Raising brings the slower players closer to the faster players - for sim, we don't want that. So, my hypothesis to dropping threshold is that it creates a 1/10th speed difference between the WR's and DB's, and the OL, DL and LB's....



DT's per the chart above are at average 5.13 40 yard time...the range of speed in madden, minus the highest and lowest exceptions is between, 74 to 50 for DT's.....Translate that to Maddens speed chart for their 40 times between that range of 74 to 50, we are looking at DT's running 40 times close to 4.45 to 4.69....



So, lets just hypothesis that for each 10 points dropped from 50 we lower the speeds of OL.DL and LB's by 1/10th 40 time, we would have to be around a speed threshold of 10....that would give the fastest DT's a new speed rating of about a 4.85 sec. 40 time...While leaving DB's and WR's in place....



Does this make any sense to anyone else or have I gone slider bonkers?

I think I'm following you lol..is this with "Game Speed" at Normal?


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Old 10-24-2014, 12:20 AM   #8
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Re: Speed threshold broken or am I testing it wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StefJoeHalt
I think I'm following you lol..is this with "Game Speed" at Normal?


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I have game speed @ Slow on All-Pro....

IF player speed is increased to "normal" speed, I would venture to guess the same principles apply.
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