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JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

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Old 10-01-2016, 12:33 PM   #1505
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

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Originally Posted by JoshC1977
Remember, if we change a gameplay slider within CFM, CPU playcalling goes to crap again (i.e. 4 verts, sticks, dives, rinse and repeat). (Un)fortunately, neither is an option.
Are we sure about that? I tried CPU QB acc at 10 (just to see if it would change something, it didn't...), and they showed the same variety of play calls that I have seen before. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but the vast majority of slider guys doesn't leave the sliders untouched at all. After all these years there should be a consensus on if gameplay sliders do change playcalling, I would suppose.
After all that should be easy to prove by just making a list of the plays called with sliders at 50 and with sliders at let's say 10.
Again, I'm not doubting your knowledge (I enjoyed King's set on M16 a lot), but I'm surprised how much uncertainty there still is after all these years.
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Old 10-01-2016, 12:49 PM   #1506
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

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Originally Posted by JoshC1977
Remember, if we change a gameplay slider within CFM, CPU playcalling goes to crap again (i.e. 4 verts, sticks, dives, rinse and repeat). (Un)fortunately, neither is an option.
fwiw i have tried several games with pass block between 0-15 and qba at 75.

These actually played well. I will have to try again and note play call variety. The cpu threw more downfield passes. I avaeraged 3.5 sacks a game.

Cpu completion ranged from 75 to 55 percent. YPA for myself snd the cpu weree both between 5.5 and 7 each game, which is good.
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Old 10-01-2016, 01:44 PM   #1507
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

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Old 10-01-2016, 01:56 PM   #1508
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raniel3
Are we sure about that? I tried CPU QB acc at 10 (just to see if it would change something, it didn't...), and they showed the same variety of play calls that I have seen before. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but the vast majority of slider guys doesn't leave the sliders untouched at all. After all these years there should be a consensus on if gameplay sliders do change playcalling, I would suppose.
After all that should be easy to prove by just making a list of the plays called with sliders at 50 and with sliders at let's say 10.
Again, I'm not doubting your knowledge (I enjoyed King's set on M16 a lot), but I'm surprised how much uncertainty there still is after all these years.
I did a half with 10 QBA....and...maybe they don't...OK fair enough.

However, it is completely irrelevant. QBA is the absolute last slider I would touch....it de-balances every facet of the game and one adjustment yields another and another and another. In that test, I got a whopping one offline throw out of it...the cost was crappy coverage, anemic run game, poor blocking...that cost is too high...

Maybe you think I am being obtuse about leaving gameplay sliders at default. You might be right, but I still believe that the gameplay is best overall when the gameplay sliders are left at default. Disagree...you can use someone else's sliders, I won't be offended

Sorry, but just not going down that rabbit hole unless I am forced to.
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Old 10-01-2016, 02:45 PM   #1509
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

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Originally Posted by JoshC1977
I did a half with 10 QBA....and...maybe they don't...OK fair enough.

However, it is completely irrelevant. QBA is the absolute last slider I would touch....it de-balances every facet of the game and one adjustment yields another and another and another. In that test, I got a whopping one offline throw out of it...the cost was crappy coverage, anemic run game, poor blocking...that cost is too high...

Maybe you think I am being obtuse about leaving gameplay sliders at default. You might be right, but I still believe that the gameplay is best overall when the gameplay sliders are left at default. Disagree...you can use someone else's sliders, I won't be offended

Sorry, but just not going down that rabbit hole unless I am forced to.
No I didn't mean it that way. There is a reason the 50 is the default, it's being balanced by the devs to play best (at least according to them, not necessarily to the stats) at that setting. So I understand your point of view and I am not far off. I know that changing the QBA doesn't change completion as much as it should, so I would leave that slider untouched, too. I just wonder how in the world the devs would come to the idea to create a slider that changes everything else but not the QBA. That doesn't make sense at all. I'd rather delete the whole slider thing instead of programming one that does that. In a ratings based game it should be a task of 10 minutes to programm a slider that just decreases the accuracy ratings of the QB (like on NBA 2k e.g.).

Anyway, when you go on all-madden difficulty you already change the balance of the game that much (all of the CPU rating boosts dramatically alter the game) that "staying true to default" cannot be accomplished anyway, if you understand what I'm saying. If you want a more challenging game, that's certainly the way to go, but it will not be realistic or organic anymore IMO.

I will change back to all-pro with your sliders and see how it plays out, maybe changing the blocking sliders a bit to make the game more challenging (IIRC these sliders don't interact with anything else)
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Old 10-01-2016, 02:50 PM   #1510
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

So just a tidbit here. Finished up my offseason with the Saints and played preseason week 1. It is so crazy how rating matter now. The 2nd stringers played just so much different on both sides the the 1st stringers did and you could tell when a stud happened to get on the field with all these backups. I was really cool to play.

Total side note. I drafted this late rd DE named Akiee McCargo. He was decent. I think 68 ovr. He's 6'6" 300lbs. Big boy. But here's the kicker. He's a freak athelete. He has 85 spd, 82 acc, 84 agi, 81 jmp, and 80 str. Dude that's some crazy movement for a 300lb guy. He has 82 hit pwr, 85 power mov, and 85 pur. He does lack in some areas. Only 71 tak, 75 blk shed, 59 finesse, 56 play rec, 51 awr, 51 man, 56 zone. So I had the bright idea to change him to a MLB as my #2 in my 3-4 scheme because who would't be frightened to see this 300lb beast in the middle of the field who can move. Well his ovr dropped to 61. I would imagine due to his lacking skills in tak, play rec, and awr mostly. But damn if I can get those attributes up that would be awesome. In the game I just played I used him and he just takes up space and made 3 tak for loss which I almost never do. Pretty sweet.
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Old 10-01-2016, 03:31 PM   #1511
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raniel3
No I didn't mean it that way. There is a reason the 50 is the default, it's being balanced by the devs to play best (at least according to them, not necessarily to the stats) at that setting. So I understand your point of view and I am not far off. I know that changing the QBA doesn't change completion as much as it should, so I would leave that slider untouched, too. I just wonder how in the world the devs would come to the idea to create a slider that changes everything else but not the QBA. That doesn't make sense at all. I'd rather delete the whole slider thing instead of programming one that does that. In a ratings based game it should be a task of 10 minutes to programm a slider that just decreases the accuracy ratings of the QB (like on NBA 2k e.g.).

Anyway, when you go on all-madden difficulty you already change the balance of the game that much (all of the CPU rating boosts dramatically alter the game) that "staying true to default" cannot be accomplished anyway, if you understand what I'm saying. If you want a more challenging game, that's certainly the way to go, but it will not be realistic or organic anymore IMO.

I will change back to all-pro with your sliders and see how it plays out, maybe changing the blocking sliders a bit to make the game more challenging (IIRC these sliders don't interact with anything else)
We're talking two different things.

What I am talking about is keeping the game engine balanced...for better or worse. There is no doubt that the game play is skewed towards the CPU on All Madden. What I am saying is that adjusting gameplay sliders de-balances that engine (tweak one, and it is a series of moves/counter-moves in a vain attempt to re-balance it). This is why I favor the approach of using penalties/autosubs to tweak the engine globally to more appropriate outcomes.

I'm totally in agreement that All Pro is the most balanced gameplay wise. However, at least pre-patch, there are glaring issues that prevent it from having the required level of difficulty to make it viable long-term. I am hopeful that the patch changes this...
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Old 10-01-2016, 07:09 PM   #1512
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

I just turned off KCI and Offensive Pass Interference inside CFM.

Wow. Totally different feel. I finally get some defense against the CPU passing game. Not as much spacing. My 2 games played like gems with animations I had not seen yet. Mist fun I've had yet with 17.

Something to watch.
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