JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

[JoshC1977]

Quote: Originally Posted by schnaidt1

thats fine....im just showing my experience with those curious.... im still struggling to find a way to throw inaccurate passes. if i find the open man...im completing all my passes. hoping a breakthrough comes with this soon.

Absolutely....I love seeing vids more than anything when assessing sliders. I don't care WHAT happened, I care about the WHY...watching things unfold help provide that answer.

Truth be told, I see more user incomplete passes using the OP setup than any other I have tested (but it is such an enigma). Even in testing something different today, I have a total mis-mash of penalty sliders, ST sliders, and autosubs. While some aspects have been improved (line play interactions), I am already seriously pondering just going back to my OP with just a possible tweak or two at most.

[picker19]

Quote: Originally Posted by schnaidt1

thats fine....im just showing my experience with those curious.... im still struggling to find a way to throw inaccurate passes. if i find the open man...im completing all my passes. hoping a breakthrough comes with this soon. Sent from my VS987 using Operation Sports mobile app

Schnaidt1, I just started a new CFM with the Browns too and after giving Josh's OP a try for several games, I went back to replay the same games using your INJ and Fatigue sliders (I kept threshold at 50 and the rest as the Josh's OP), and I have to say, so far, it seems you are right. I have only played one game, but the CPU run game torched me for the first time since the October patch. Again, only one game, but it was such a huge difference that I had to take notice. So, it's not the threshold that's causing the run game difference, but your INJ and/or Fatigue settings, I am assuming. With the OP settings here, I had to always "Guess Pass" to give the CPU any run game at all.

Now, the only concern I have is that these settings seem to open up not just the run game but all aspects of the offense. Passing was also easier. I'm going to try out a few more games to see if this holds. I also want to see if it's INJ or Fatigue that's causing this difference.

[schnaidt1]

Quote: Originally Posted by picker19

Schnaidt1, I just started a new CFM with the Browns too and after giving Josh's OP a try for several games, I went back to replay the same games using your INJ and Fatigue sliders (I kept threshold at 50 and the rest as the Josh's OP), and I have to say, so far, it seems you are right. I have only played one game, but the CPU run game torched me for the first time since the October patch. Again, only one game, but it was such a huge difference that I had to take notice. So, it's not the threshold that's causing the run game difference, but your INJ and/or Fatigue settings, I am assuming. With the OP settings here, I had to always "Guess Pass" to give the CPU any run game at all. Now, the only concern I have is that these settings seem to open up not just the run game but all aspects of the offense. Passing was also easier. I'm going to try out a few more games to see if this holds. I also want to see if it's INJ or Fatigue that's causing this difference.

i actually never believed the threshold slider helped the run game...i kinda stumbled on the injury coorelation..

the higher threshold is what is making passsing more difficult..

i ran 6 games with this set default OP as chargers with Jimmy Garopollo as my qb and was leading the league in passing by a mile...my entire offense was number 1....my record wasnt as good because of turnovers...

try the set up with 100 threshold and let me know how it goes.

Sent from my VS987 using Operation Sports mobile app

[picker19]

Quote: Originally Posted by schnaidt1

i actually never believed the threshold slider helped the run game...i kinda stumbled on the injury coorelation.. the higher threshold is what is making passsing more difficult.. i ran 6 games with this set default OP as chargers with Jimmy Garopollo as my qb and was leading the league in passing by a mile...my entire offense was number 1....my record wasnt as good because of turnovers... try the set up with 100 threshold and let me know how it goes. Sent from my VS987 using Operation Sports mobile app

I just did a very quick test of just having INJ = 55 and then did a test with just FAT = 60, keeping everything else as the OP. It doesn't appear that one specifically impacts the run game. Individually each seems to help it, but combined, it opens it up for both CPU and USER. But like I said earlier, when I had them set as yours, there was WAY too much offense. So, tomorrow I'll try the Threshold setting to see if that makes a difference. Honestly, I'm just looking for anything that will make the CPU better. The game is WAY too easy for Coach Mode on AP, regardless of what settings I use.

[picker19]

Quote: Originally Posted by picker19

I just did a very quick test of just having INJ = 55 and then did a test with just FAT = 60, keeping everything else as the OP. It doesn't appear that one specifically impacts the run game. Individually each seems to help it, but combined, it opens it up for both CPU and USER. But like I said earlier, when I had them set as yours, there was WAY too much offense. So, tomorrow I'll try the Threshold setting to see if that makes a difference. Honestly, I'm just looking for anything that will make the CPU better. The game is WAY too easy for Coach Mode on AP, regardless of what settings I use.

So I did a quick test with your set using 100 threshold. I only played one game, but it was interesting to see that with INJ = 55 and FAT = 60 by itself, the offense really opened up a lot. Yet, putting threshold at 100 closed up the space, kind of counter balancing it. I did still see a couple deep passes and a few good runs of 10+ yards. But even as the Browns on Coach Mode, I was still beating the CPU in almost every category. So, while I liked the game play, it doesn't appear to help give the CPU any edge.

[schnaidt1]

Quote: Originally Posted by picker19

So I did a quick test with your set using 100 threshold. I only played one game, but it was interesting to see that with INJ = 55 and FAT = 60 by itself, the offense really opened up a lot. Yet, putting threshold at 100 closed up the space, kind of counter balancing it. I did still see a couple deep passes and a few good runs of 10+ yards. But even as the Browns on Coach Mode, I was still beating the CPU in almost every category. So, while I liked the game play, it doesn't appear to help give the CPU any edge.

this may be the dumbest thing i have ever asked...but what is coach mode exactly??


do u not control the players??

Sent from my VS987 using Operation Sports mobile app

[picker19]

Quote: Originally Posted by schnaidt1

this may be the dumbest thing i have ever asked...but what is coach mode exactly?? do u not control the players?? Sent from my VS987 using Operation Sports mobile app

No, besides kicking and hiking the ball, you control nothing...just pick the plays.

M16 was the only game where there was a real challenge with Coach Mode AP default. But this year, it's way too easy. It proves to me that on AP, the USER side has the advantage...it's not a balanced sim. The CPU just can't score.

[JoshC1977]

This is going to be a bit drawn-out and a little "all over the place" so bear with me....

Fatigue sliders
They work, but they also open-up the offense a fair bit. In true M17 fashion, it is a 'pick your poison' sort of battle. I ultimately feel that it opens a large can of worms, constantly trying to compensate and compensate for it. Without making major changes, you can't totally compensate for it....and those changes have a strong likelihood of 'breaking' something else. Schnaidt's method of compensating with thresh/DPI is one way to go...but it introduces its own set of issues. Again, pick your poison.

For completeness, one other method of tightening things up is to raise the MM facemask slider to 55. From my own testing, I found that raising the FM slider was more effective in tightening things up than DPI was....it's another option for those wanting to go down the 'rabbit hole'.

After a significant amount of testing; I have ultimately decided that the trade-offs are not worth it.


Ease of Passing
Every year, there are always comments/complaints from some people about how the user passing game is "too easy". I have invariably found that the issues result from 1 and/or 2 factors. Factor 1 is a lack of pressure (that is a slider/setting thing). Factor 2 is the user's playstyle; let's touch on that a second.

People complain about the CPU going "Robo QB" on them. What is "Robo QB"? Put simply, it is when they dink/dunk all over the place; taking the easiest throw possible and never challenging the defense (i.e. playing like Sam Bradford did this year...and what did he do, he set the all time record for completion percentage). It's annoying as crap to play against on Madden, we all know that, especially if there are pass rush issues.

Here's the kicker, I see many users doing this to the CPU all the time; If I were the CPU, I would gripe about the User going all 'Robo QB' on me. This is often coupled with people over-using the most OP passing plays in the game (i.e. meshes and crossing patterns)...something that sliders really can't fix. You can argue it is "smart football" and that's fine...if you want to play like Bradford, go for it....just know that your numbers may be more inflated as a result. Doing the dink/dunk is a valid 'football' strategy; but if real life NFL defenses gave up more than 70% comp to Bradford on the year, what do you think this will do to a programmed CPU opponent on Madden?

Gameplay has three components; the gameplay engine; the sliders/settings; and the user input. I have tried to keep the first two as stable as possible, but I can't do anything about the third...everyone has to assess this for themselves.

The state of the OP Set
I've spent a lot of time re-evaluating the OP set and where to go from here. The biggest issue is a general inability to run the ball (mainly for the CPU but it is also stifling for the user). A secondary issue is improving the general pass defense. I made adjustment after adjustment to try to correct these without rocking the boat...I even went to extremes...every change begatting more and more issues. (As a note: I was also seeing a trend where second halves of games where way more high-scoring.)

So, taking a step back, I asked myself. Why is this happening? What is occurring on the field leading to this issue.

For the run game, the issue was two-fold; tackling was overpowering to the RBs and the LBs were to them consistently early. In short, defenses were just overly-aggressive and the offense was unable to compensate for the imbalance.

The passing game is a bit more complex. While I play an aggressive style of QB, I also feel that there have been way too many INTs and pass deflections with the OP (for both sides). Additionally, I've been seeing issues where the DBs would slow down in coverage, trying to play the QB more than the receiver. Watch their heads, you will often see the DBs following the QB, trying to read the ball and jogging more (which leads to more separation). I also see issues with safeties and LBs over-reacting (more often than ratings would suggest)...leaving the zones more wide open. Again, all issues pointing to the defense being too aggressive,

So, what in the OP would cause this? We know that the injury slider is a factor...but, I truly believe that this should be set to 50 in the main menu to match the CFM as it has been in past years. What else do we have; that MM set to All Madden, which is more aggressive by nature. BUT, we're asking for "AP level" players (from CFM settings) to compensate for AM level aggression (from MM). And there, we have our imbalance.

I am thus evaluating three changes to the OP:

• Main Menu to All Pro
• Ballhawk "on"
• Heat Seeker "on

All three changes push the pile closer to default. I got a game in last night as BUF versus NE. It was a terrific game and the ratings really shone through better. The CPU had close to 150 yards rushing (my outclassed line struggled to move the ball on the ground...especially to the right...a little better luck running to the left where I had Glenn). Lineplay was surprisingly good as well...I was harried many times by the NE pass rush and there were few of those annoying plays where Brady could stand in the pocket for 10 seconds (I also saw him move in the pocket and even shake off a sack attempt....first time I have seen that all year). Brady completed just under 71% of his passes while Taylor was under 50% (with numerous mis-fires on intermediate throws). The Zone coverage came back (Collins was a beast covering the TE corner patterns in zone) and M2M was appropriately solid.

I obviously need more games to know for sure....but this was most definitely a promising start. The question will be one of variety in outcomes and ensuring that the difficulty is still there. I will say one thing, this was easily the most enjoyable game I have played of Madden in quite a while.