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JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

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Old 01-26-2017, 04:09 PM   #2865
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshC1977
I'm picky too, which is always my problem...I mean I spent 3 years on sliders for ncaa....not an option on madden since the series is still alive.

It's really why I have gravitated to the 'less is more' approach on madden. Try to get a stable base that won't require tweaking for every patch.

I know we got a small patch today. I'm going to install it, delete my profile and plug in what I am working on. If it still looks good, I'm rolling with it and will post it. When the patch in Feb comes out, I will do the same.
Looking forward to your new findings. Are you looking to make adjustments on how db's defend? Reading the last few pages of this thread have me excited in seeing db's make more of an effort to disrupt and deflect passes or generally be more aggressive. I know I've touted your settings with default CFM autosubs in the past. You've tried that and didn't like it as db's would initially jog in coverage. I agree but what I do like is they're much more aggressive in making an effort to be disruptive when the ball is in the air. Could be that they're compensating for the initial jog!! I've always found the db's to be less aggressive with CFM auto subs at 60/80 once the ball is passed but more aggressive in coverage pre-pass vs default CFM auto subs. Similar theory as to leaving mm injury at 10. Idk just an observation. . Thanks for all the work you do on these. I enjoy the game more bc of it!
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Old 01-26-2017, 07:35 PM   #2866
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

Trust me guys. What Josh has going is very good. Perfect? No but that's just being unrealistic. With what Madden gives us I believe this is going to be the most solid gameplay you can get. If you are looking for something wrong I guarantee you will find it. But if you sit back and just play the game without nitpicking every play you will have a wonderful time. Don't let a play or two that doesn't seem right make you upset. Look at it as a whole.

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Old 01-26-2017, 08:32 PM   #2867
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdawg3782
Trust me guys. What Josh has going is very good. Perfect? No but that's just being unrealistic. With what Madden gives us I believe this is going to be the most solid gameplay you can get. If you are looking for something wrong I guarantee you will find it. But if you sit back and just play the game without nitpicking every play you will have a wonderful time. Don't let a play or two that doesn't seem right make you upset. Look at it as a whole.

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That's the approach and mentality I'm trying to get back to, after tirelessly worrying about sliders. I just want to sit down and have fun like the good ol' days!
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Old 01-26-2017, 08:54 PM   #2868
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdawg3782
Trust me guys. What Josh has going is very good. Perfect? No but that's just being unrealistic. With what Madden gives us I believe this is going to be the most solid gameplay you can get. If you are looking for something wrong I guarantee you will find it. But if you sit back and just play the game without nitpicking every play you will have a wonderful time. Don't let a play or two that doesn't seem right make you upset. Look at it as a whole.

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Preach. I honestly can't stress enough that you have to stop with the slideritis and just play.
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Old 01-26-2017, 09:28 PM   #2869
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

I do know that besides the QB ACC slider hopefully being tuned, there must be an offsides glitch that occurs because that is being fixed.

I didn't even know there was an offsides glitch.
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Old 01-26-2017, 09:51 PM   #2870
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

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Originally Posted by roadman
I do know that besides the QB ACC slider hopefully being tuned, there must be an offsides glitch that occurs because that is being fixed.

I didn't even know there was an offsides glitch.
i didn't either lol

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Old 01-26-2017, 11:47 PM   #2871
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

OK guys, so this is the update I have been referring to. Major caveat, I have done very minimal assessment after today's patch; but at first glance, it appears to work just as well.

The biggest issue I had with the old OP was that it bluntly was not balanced. Balance on Madden is a tricky thing. It means that you get a variety of outcomes based on ratings on a per game basis and a per play basis. What I want to avoid is a scenario where one or more game settings was causing there to be a constant similarity in every outcome. This might be as simple as getting the same types of tackle animations regardless of player ratings. The premise: beat the opponent, not the sliders.

However, this also has to be tempered in such a manner that the outcomes are a) realistic and b) result in a gameplay dynamic that gives the user a realistic (based on ratings) challenge.

My concern is that the main menu fatigue and injury sliders were resulting in an overall impact to the gameplay that was stifling that dynamic gameplay I desire. So, how do we mute the impact of those sliders? Well, I started to think about how penalty sliders typically work. Penalty sliders tend to work in the following fashion:
  • 2-100: gameplay effects (sometimes glitchy at 100)
  • 1: penalty is turned "on" but with no/minimal effects
  • 0: penalty is turned "off" and usually results in glitchy/warpy behavior
We have tried a wide range of values for both and can clearly manipulate the gameplay dynamics. But, I realized that the flaw is that they add to that "sameness" we were seeing. Tried turning one or both to 0 (i.e. turned "off") and the game gets warpy and gltchy. So, taking a cue from the penalty sliders...set both to "1", which ostensibly is "on" but without gameplay impact. Now, I can't say that if you dive into the code that this is really what happens; but that doesn't matter. What I can say is that it has resulted in some fine gameplay.

TDawg and I have both been testing this (his last couple of vids have been featuring these adjustments)....the variety has been tremendous.

Now, the odd portion of this, for whatever reason, this setup plays best (IMO) when ballhawk, autostrafe, and heatseeker are all "on". I know I poo-poo'd autostrafe before due to concerns that it was leading to hyper-accurate QB play. Maybe that was small sample size, or maybe there are just certain combos that lead to it. All I can say is that I've seen completion percentages ranging from the low 50s to the high 70s for both the CPU and the user with plenty of offline throws (depending on the QBs in question).

The run games....I've exploded some games, the CPU has exploded some games. I've been shut down some games, they've been shut down some games. Again....variety...

What does variety mean? It means, DO NOT judge on small sample sizes. Big games happen, poor games happen. I've been blown out, I've blown out the CPU and I have had nail-biters.

One final caveat: if you play to exploit the game's weaknesses, don't bother. If you play to play some sim football, please, jump in.

I have been having a blast with these, I hope you all do too.
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Old 01-27-2017, 12:31 AM   #2872
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshC1977
OK guys, so this is the update I have been referring to. Major caveat, I have done very minimal assessment after today's patch; but at first glance, it appears to work just as well.

The biggest issue I had with the old OP was that it bluntly was not balanced. Balance on Madden is a tricky thing. It means that you get a variety of outcomes based on ratings on a per game basis and a per play basis. What I want to avoid is a scenario where one or more game settings was causing there to be a constant similarity in every outcome. This might be as simple as getting the same types of tackle animations regardless of player ratings. The premise: beat the opponent, not the sliders.

However, this also has to be tempered in such a manner that the outcomes are a) realistic and b) result in a gameplay dynamic that gives the user a realistic (based on ratings) challenge.

My concern is that the main menu fatigue and injury sliders were resulting in an overall impact to the gameplay that was stifling that dynamic gameplay I desire. So, how do we mute the impact of those sliders? Well, I started to think about how penalty sliders typically work. Penalty sliders tend to work in the following fashion:
  • 2-100: gameplay effects (sometimes glitchy at 100)
  • 1: penalty is turned "on" but with no/minimal effects
  • 0: penalty is turned "off" and usually results in glitchy/warpy behavior
We have tried a wide range of values for both and can clearly manipulate the gameplay dynamics. But, I realized that the flaw is that they add to that "sameness" we were seeing. Tried turning one or both to 0 (i.e. turned "off") and the game gets warpy and gltchy. So, taking a cue from the penalty sliders...set both to "1", which ostensibly is "on" but without gameplay impact. Now, I can't say that if you dive into the code that this is really what happens; but that doesn't matter. What I can say is that it has resulted in some fine gameplay.

TDawg and I have both been testing this (his last couple of vids have been featuring these adjustments)....the variety has been tremendous.

Now, the odd portion of this, for whatever reason, this setup plays best (IMO) when ballhawk, autostrafe, and heatseeker are all "on". I know I poo-poo'd autostrafe before due to concerns that it was leading to hyper-accurate QB play. Maybe that was small sample size, or maybe there are just certain combos that lead to it. All I can say is that I've seen completion percentages ranging from the low 50s to the high 70s for both the CPU and the user with plenty of offline throws (depending on the QBs in question).

The run games....I've exploded some games, the CPU has exploded some games. I've been shut down some games, they've been shut down some games. Again....variety...

What does variety mean? It means, DO NOT judge on small sample sizes. Big games happen, poor games happen. I've been blown out, I've blown out the CPU and I have had nail-biters.

One final caveat: if you play to exploit the game's weaknesses, don't bother. If you play to play some sim football, please, jump in.

I have been having a blast with these, I hope you all do too.
no testing of intentional grounding or defensive holding?? really would like your thoughts

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