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Old 01-27-2017, 02:07 AM   #2873
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

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Originally Posted by schnaidt1
no testing of intentional grounding or defensive holding?? really would like your thoughts

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No, I haven't. I've been working on this new setup for a bit now. The reality is that I am extremely happy with this set (and from what I've seen so far, the patch hasn't changed that opinion).

Now....I have tested turning off IG in the past...and I totally get the attraction. But, I can never escape one thing....it artificially enhances the offense. Every offensive position gets a boost from what I have seen. It's just overpowering without major adjustments to other sliders. I'm trying to get away from "beating the sliders" and instead want to focus on "beating the opponent"...let the ratings really play out with minimal interference from other settings. I'm not saying it can't work; it's just not the path I want to go down as I am truly favoring the "less is more" approach.

I've not tested the defensive holding at low settings...I understand the theory, but I don't feel the need to tweak the DB play with the new set.
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Old 01-27-2017, 05:19 AM   #2874
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

Hey Josh.... I see you've been working with tdawg... are you using his XP sliders now or have you kept them on default?
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Old 01-27-2017, 10:17 AM   #2875
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Icon7 Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

The only area I prefer is in turning the OPI and KCI to "off". I get a better overall defensive game. Lower scoring--less total yds/gm. You are better at noticing the more intricate details of line blocking and warping. No matter what changes I make (usually stick to your changes), I always resort to turning these two back off. Something to watch.

-On a side note, on my Xbox I still keep your original auto subs and I swear the game still plays amazing I just don't play it as much since it's in the basement and the PS4 is upstairs. I've debating plugging them in with your up to date changes just to see how it plays.
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Old 01-27-2017, 11:15 AM   #2876
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

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Originally Posted by JoshC1977
OK guys, so this is the update I have been referring to. Major caveat, I have done very minimal assessment after today's patch; but at first glance, it appears to work just as well.

The biggest issue I had with the old OP was that it bluntly was not balanced. Balance on Madden is a tricky thing. It means that you get a variety of outcomes based on ratings on a per game basis and a per play basis. What I want to avoid is a scenario where one or more game settings was causing there to be a constant similarity in every outcome. This might be as simple as getting the same types of tackle animations regardless of player ratings. The premise: beat the opponent, not the sliders.

However, this also has to be tempered in such a manner that the outcomes are a) realistic and b) result in a gameplay dynamic that gives the user a realistic (based on ratings) challenge.

My concern is that the main menu fatigue and injury sliders were resulting in an overall impact to the gameplay that was stifling that dynamic gameplay I desire. So, how do we mute the impact of those sliders? Well, I started to think about how penalty sliders typically work. Penalty sliders tend to work in the following fashion:
  • 2-100: gameplay effects (sometimes glitchy at 100)
  • 1: penalty is turned "on" but with no/minimal effects
  • 0: penalty is turned "off" and usually results in glitchy/warpy behavior
We have tried a wide range of values for both and can clearly manipulate the gameplay dynamics. But, I realized that the flaw is that they add to that "sameness" we were seeing. Tried turning one or both to 0 (i.e. turned "off") and the game gets warpy and gltchy. So, taking a cue from the penalty sliders...set both to "1", which ostensibly is "on" but without gameplay impact. Now, I can't say that if you dive into the code that this is really what happens; but that doesn't matter. What I can say is that it has resulted in some fine gameplay.

TDawg and I have both been testing this (his last couple of vids have been featuring these adjustments)....the variety has been tremendous.

Now, the odd portion of this, for whatever reason, this setup plays best (IMO) when ballhawk, autostrafe, and heatseeker are all "on". I know I poo-poo'd autostrafe before due to concerns that it was leading to hyper-accurate QB play. Maybe that was small sample size, or maybe there are just certain combos that lead to it. All I can say is that I've seen completion percentages ranging from the low 50s to the high 70s for both the CPU and the user with plenty of offline throws (depending on the QBs in question).

The run games....I've exploded some games, the CPU has exploded some games. I've been shut down some games, they've been shut down some games. Again....variety...

What does variety mean? It means, DO NOT judge on small sample sizes. Big games happen, poor games happen. I've been blown out, I've blown out the CPU and I have had nail-biters.

One final caveat: if you play to exploit the game's weaknesses, don't bother. If you play to play some sim football, please, jump in.

I have been having a blast with these, I hope you all do too.
Really interesting. Can't wait to give these a go. Never in a million years would I have anticipated you adjusting the MM injury below 50. Much less below the default of 10. In Josh we trust! lol. Only difference I plan to employ is using 12 min clock with accelerated clock set at 20 seconds. I don't think that will have an impact on results but with this game you never really know.
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Old 01-27-2017, 11:31 AM   #2877
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by gcoons22
Really interesting. Can't wait to give these a go. Never in a million years would I have anticipated you adjusting the MM injury below 50. Much less below the default of 10. In Josh we trust! lol. Only difference I plan to employ is using 12 min clock with accelerated clock set at 20 seconds. I don't think that will have an impact on results but with this game you never really know.
I've been using 11 min/20 run off the whole time.
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Old 01-27-2017, 11:46 AM   #2878
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

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Originally Posted by Cliffking
Hey Josh.... I see you've been working with tdawg... are you using his XP sliders now or have you kept them on default?
I'm still using default, but more because I haven't gone back to test them out. He's been testing with his XP sliders and it seems to be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubio809
The only area I prefer is in turning the OPI and KCI to "off". I get a better overall defensive game. Lower scoring--less total yds/gm. You are better at noticing the more intricate details of line blocking and warping. No matter what changes I make (usually stick to your changes), I always resort to turning these two back off. Something to watch.

-On a side note, on my Xbox I still keep your original auto subs and I swear the game still plays amazing I just don't play it as much since it's in the basement and the PS4 is upstairs. I've debating plugging them in with your up to date changes just to see how it plays.
I've veered away from turning off OPI and KCI this year for very specific reasons. KCI has been resulting in pursuit glitches (like the LBs stopping when in pursuit and then running the wrong way). Autostrafe on has a similar affect as turning off KCI (giving guys a bit more 'read') without the pursuit glitches.

King swears by OPI "off" and he and I have had some discussions offline. My observation is that it weakens coverage by artificially moving offensive players around defenders in CB/WR interactions (almost like it forms a 'bubble' around the receiver). King feels that it results in more variation at the point of reception (i.e. receiver not catching always getting the ball in the 'sweet spot'). I have not been able to replicate that observation and thus feel that the downsides are not worth the possible improvements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gcoons22
Really interesting. Can't wait to give these a go. Never in a million years would I have anticipated you adjusting the MM injury below 50. Much less below the default of 10. In Josh we trust! lol. Only difference I plan to employ is using 12 min clock with accelerated clock set at 20 seconds. I don't think that will have an impact on results but with this game you never really know.
Clock length should be fine.

The injury slider thing was interesting for sure. The one thing I couldn't escape was that it had such a dramatic impact on the gameplay (especially with respect to tackle variety). Once it dawned on me that it might be similar to penalty sliders (with "1" being "on" w/o the gameplay effect); it started to make sense how we could minimize its impact. I think that the results will speak for themselves.
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Last edited by JoshC1977; 01-27-2017 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 01-27-2017, 12:09 PM   #2879
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

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Originally Posted by JoshC1977
I'm still using default, but more because I haven't gone back to test them out. He's been testing with his XP sliders and it seems to be fine.



I've veered away from turning off OPI and KCI this year for very specific reasons. KCI has been resulting in pursuit glitches (like the LBs stopping when in pursuit and then running the wrong way). Autostrafe on has a similar affect as turning off KCI (giving guys a bit more 'read') without the pursuit glitches.

King swears by OPI "off" and he and I have had some discussions offline. My observation is that it weakens coverage by artificially moving offensive players around defenders in CB/WR interactions (almost like it forms a 'bubble' around the receiver). King feels that it results in more variation at the point of reception (i.e. receiver not catching always getting the ball in the 'sweet spot'). I have not been able to replicate that observation and thus feel that the downsides are not worth the possible improvements.



Clock length should be fine.

The injury slider thing was interesting for sure. The one thing I couldn't escape was that it had such a dramatic impact on the gameplay (especially with respect to tackle variety). Once it dawned on me that it might be similar to penalty sliders (with "1" being "on" w/o the gameplay effect); it started to make sense how we could minimize its impact. I think that the results will speak for themselves.
Thank you very much
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Old 01-27-2017, 02:56 PM   #2880
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

Just wanted to piggyback on Joshs sentiments of trying to get players to play more towards ratings. In case any who saw those highlight vids I posted and may have thought I was having to easy of a time I wanted to post a few screenshots of my current Saints team. The year is 2022 and they are a juggernaut to say the least.

saints off ovr.jpg
saints def ovr.jpg

I also just started a 49ers cfm and they on the other hand are pretty terrible terrible. I didn't play the first season and they had the worst record in the league. I just had my first draft, and while successful, they are still terrible. Lost my first preseason game 34-7. It was rough. But damn if the players didn't play how they were supposed to.
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