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Old 04-19-2017, 06:07 PM   #3473
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

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Originally Posted by JoshC1977
Yeah, but it's a trade-off for gameplay. To be very frank, the gameplay is SO good in the new set that I don't even care (and that is normally something that bugs me a fair bit).

It's truly unfortunate that EA continues to elect to using 49/50 autosubs in CFM as its default. I've never understood the rationale behind that decision (and I have seen a few things on the boards from devs that suggest it was a conscious decision). Because autosubs have significant gameplay impacts and since EA calibrates the game engine at default AP, that odd little 49/50 autosub setting winds up being critical (same with the gameplay assists being on).

When you play with their true defaults (with just my little tweak of MM speed at slow), you can clearly tell that this is how the game was calibrated. Lots of little things start happening (certain penalties actually being called, much greater variety in player interactions, etc.). I freakin' hate it when people overuse this term in the forums....but it applies here...it is truly an organic experience.
i hear ya. but im kinda stradling the fence on making the change just because fatigue IS such an important factor in football.... (or any sport for that matter) it could win or cost you a game. It definitely has an impact on how you think, play and coordinate how your going to execute things on the field and from the sidelines. Your original set of sliders are excellent as well, with the fatigue factor in play. i think im gonna stick with those and give you the ultimate kudos for being able to provide us with excellent options! THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK!!

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Old 04-19-2017, 07:19 PM   #3474
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

How are completion percentages and man coverage with these?
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Old 04-19-2017, 07:24 PM   #3475
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

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Originally Posted by schnaidt1
1 other thing....i know before with past sets u stated using tdawgs xp sliders messed up things....is this still the case? have u done any testing with this all defualt aprouch with his xp sliders??
I haven't done anything with xp sliders in a long time....in keeping with the theme, I'm sticking with default.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dorsett33
i hear ya. but im kinda stradling the fence on making the change just because fatigue IS such an important factor in football.... (or any sport for that matter) it could win or cost you a game. It definitely has an impact on how you think, play and coordinate how your going to execute things on the field and from the sidelines. Your original set of sliders are excellent as well, with the fatigue factor in play. i think im gonna stick with those and give you the ultimate kudos for being able to provide us with excellent options! THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK!!

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Careful here....guys DO get tired with the settings, just not quite as much. The issue with the subbing is not fatigue rate but rather that the sub values are so low at default.

Guys definitely wear down more quickly as the game progresses and because of the enhanced gameplay, RBs aren't going to always be jammed for short runs/losses...and the more they run, the more skill moves they use, the more the stamina drops. I've seen backups come in at virtually every position (except for dline)...and dline is easy (in a rather sim manner) to address via formation subs.

So....we shouldn't equate autosubbing and fatigue...two different animals.
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:04 PM   #3476
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

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Originally Posted by Trojan Man
How are completion percentages and man coverage with these?
Hey TM....I've been liking what I have seen on both counts:

Man Coverage

Because of the lower CB/S autosub values, DBs stick to their receivers better. There are fewer outright deflections (which frankly, at 60/80 are higher than real life to begin with). What you see more of are DBs playing better positional defense and then hitting the receivers to knock the ball out (and with the lower WR autosub values, this happens more organically). The ballhawk feature helps with the ball awareness, so they will attack the ball more (especially in zone, but also while in man as the situation allows). The jam animation at the LOS (which causes so many issues with respect to M2M on deep routes in Cover 1) is lessened with the lower autosub, enabling the DB to not have that little stumble quite as often which leads to the WR being open quickly. Now, factor-in a much improved pass rush, and it gets to be quite an interesting dynamic.

Completion Percentage
OK....so I am not going to specifically address a statistical area which has so many factors which contribute to it. Rather, I will break it down in a few areas. I will say that I have been quite happy (seeing a vast variety of values for both the CPU and User...from <50% to high 70s).
  • QB Inaccuracy (offline throws): the hardest thing to pin-down, but I have actually seen an improvement here. The MM game speed of slow (relative to the CFM speed at normal) really helps here. The AI is more in-sync with the routes, so you don't see the number of check-downs you normally see by the CPU (more intermediate throws, more mis-fires). For the user, I've also seen more mis-fires (especially with weaker QBs). I believe that the game speed offset introduces a bit of a differential between receiver AI and ball velocity (i.e. they aren't pristine in reacting to everything, including mis-timed throws....this is what OPI "off" used to help with on M16...ball placement). Use of L1/L2 and left stick controls result in some interesting dynamics when everything is factored in. (Usual caveat: all of this for the user is null and void if you do nothing all day but throw it to the 4th read dump-off receiver like lots of "sim" players seem to do.)
  • Coverage: I've addressed man already. Zone is pretty daggone good too. Solid LBs really can attack the ball to break-up passes that are not properly thrown within the zones.
  • WR Abilities: My favorite area of this new set with WR subs at 49/50. You really see a lot of variety in catch animations. Mediocre receivers will flat-out drop passes. You will see guys running through catches, you will see diving possession catch attempts, and you will still see some acrobatic catches with the elite guys. But overall, WRs are more "humanized"...but it is also balanced-out with the CB sub values (since CBs are playing the receivers a bit more).
  • Pass rush: My second favorite area....my lord it is pretty. At times, you will think it is over-powered due to mis-matches...but it is really the ratings playing out. Pocket collapse is now a thing....and it works for both sides.
  • CPU QB AI: If you play a small sample size, you will find something to nitpick on. Scramblers tend to panic a bit (occasionally looking a bit wonky due to M17s questionable scramble logic), conservative guys get rid of the ball quickly (sometimes to a fault), undisciplined vertical guys force too many balls, and elite guys are just annoying as heck to defend. Now, take it as a whole....guess what, ratings/traits are playing out! I rarely see the "statue" issues which result in sacks and QBs will target their primaries a lot better (the speed differential helping us here).
So....long story short, for me, it's been a whole lot of variety....one of those sets where sample size is just SO critical.
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:12 PM   #3477
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

What if I took your as close to default sliders and just changed the auto subs or fatigue or both?
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:35 PM   #3478
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

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Originally Posted by metaldan1991
What if I took your as close to default sliders and just changed the auto subs or fatigue or both?
So I've been using Josh's sliders for so long now I kinda have a feel for what a lot of this stuff does. But first things first. Do what ever you feel like you need to do to enjoy the game. With that the answer to your question is no plain and simple. You seem to want to keep switching things up here and I will tell you it just won't work well. You need to decide now if you want outstanding gameplay or a half assed autosub system. You can't have both. Fatigue works well as is just not autosubs in a realistic manner. But then again they never have worked in a realistic matter so there is that. Anyways it's really up to you. But if you want the gameplay with subs you have to manually set them up in formation subs and package subs. I can tell you 100% Josh would tell you that messing with what you are asking would break his set. But again it's whatever makes you happy at the end of the day.
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Old 04-19-2017, 10:50 PM   #3479
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

I forgot to mention something in my last previous post regarding last nights game between the Packers and the Colts.

I had a Nickel Blitz on Luck with the corner coming off the end. Luck sensed it, scrambled to the right and took off running.

I thought, son of a beaver, I haven't seen that in a long time. I think towards the end of the game, Luck took off again and raced out of bounds near the red zone.
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:18 PM   #3480
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by metaldan1991
What if I took your as close to default sliders and just changed the auto subs or fatigue or both?
Tdawg answered you well. Changing autosubs will kill everything about how the set plays and I think raising fatigue will just make everything too easy. But, if you're going to mess with one...try fatigue first...maybe you will find something you are happy with (though I am skeptical it will work well).

It's sorta like the warranty on a piece of equipment, you cut that factory seal and open it up....all warranties are null and void.

I like to be flexible on sliders when I can and give people options...this just isn't the year for it....
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