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Old 06-11-2017, 06:44 PM   #3673
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

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Originally Posted by JoshC1977
You really got to give it more than a couple of games versus inferior teams. I recommend a good 8-12 games using the same team in the same CFM...

Assuming you have everything set up correctly, you should see a solid variety of results depending on matchups.

Any news on that discovery of yours?
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Old 06-11-2017, 06:51 PM   #3674
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

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Originally Posted by jersam515
Any news on that discovery of yours?
Still studying it. I want to be confident of what I DO and DON'T know. I'm not going to dive into theories until I have some measure of assurance.

But as a teaser....it has nothing to do with slider settings, but if I am correct, is something that could be utilized to improve gameplay to a degree irrespective of slider settings.
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Old 06-12-2017, 11:55 AM   #3675
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

So, I am stuck again with sliders if anyone has an idea to try.

The all-madden version I posted is okay, but the results are too swingy - either the CPU completes 50% or 85% of their passes, making for not very fun games. On the other hand, the all-pro version is too easy with Von Miller getting 14.5 sacks in 4 games and my mediocre offense putting up 30 points a game.
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Old 06-12-2017, 03:57 PM   #3676
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

Jersam,

You just summarized my biggest issue with All Madden....sometimes, you think it is terrific....and then it gets stupid. I'm all for variance in individual game outcomes, but the range of variance is a bit too wide for my taste. All Pro still shows variance, but it is more muted.

Regarding the pass rush....on the OP set, I agree that elite guys can dominate a bit too much on both sides (there are too many tackles for loss/sacks and it tends to slow-up the run games far too much). Sacks are tricky because of playcalling issues by the CPU (often there are too many verts/shots being called; stay tuned on this).

A "possible" solution is to take the OP set but revert the MM injury slider to 50. I have it at 10 as M17 defaulted to this; but, other games defaulted to 50....I have always had a back-and-forth battle in my head over which way would be best for M17. This will affect all facets of the game and I think it will very much come down to which gameplay "feel" you prefer. If you're stuck in limbo, I think that this is the option that will most allow you to stay true to the fundamentals of this set.
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Old 06-12-2017, 07:02 PM   #3677
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

So....let's talk about the gameplanning function within CFM....while I know we're only a couple of months away from M18, I am hoping that some of this is useful for us moving forward. The game plan and weekly training elements were new to M17 and as we know, sometimes new features leave behind some unintended artifacts.

So, you pick your point of emphasis for offense and defense for that week then sim through (or play) the actual training. You get boosts on those types of plays as being a part of your "gameplan". In the play selection menu, you get the little green icons that pop up and indicate that it is a "gameplan play". What if the CPU is using those gameplan plays far too often (thus causing them to run the same types of plays over and over....the biggest offenders being stick patterns, "shots", and verticals). I mean, seriously, some teams call stick patterns 50-60% of the time...even if you stop it.

I started experimenting to see what would happen if I manually set the CPU's gameplan. So, I ran the initial experiment versus the Bengals (who in my experiences, are notorious for running stick patterns over and over). I took control of their coach the week BEFORE I played them (if you wait until the week you play them to take control of their coach, they will have already completed the drills so you can't do this). Now, as I looked at all of the gameplanning options, I noticed some that were not specific to play types ("situation" options).

So, for the experiment, I set their gameplanning emphasis to "Red Zone Offense" and "Red Zone Defense" and I did the same for mine. The two red zone emphasis drills make all plays (when within the red zone) "gameplan plays" and give the boosts there. By setting the CPU and User gameplans to those drills, they essentially "cancel out" the boosts (albeit, at a slightly boosted level). Also, teams get "amped-up" in the red zone in real life; so this feels a bit more "sim" in some respects.

So, fired it up....my god....the CPU play-calling (with their default 'balanced offense' scheme) was SO much better. They were calling a much wider variety of plays and were actually catching me off-guard on occasion. I even had a tougher time cracking their defense...

Now....I have run a few other possible options as far as gameplan drills. I've settled on the redzone offense/defense being the most reliable approach.

Here is what I know and don't know:
  • I cannot directly correlate the drill used to how often a team calls a play. In other words, if the CPU drills on a "Cover 1", I don't necessarily see them calling more Cover 1 plays. But, I have nowhere near the statistically-significant sample size I would need to prove/disprove this. Frankly, I am not going to take it quite this far.
  • However, for whatever reason, there appears to be an improvement in CPU game-calling variety when setting the gameplan to "red zone offense/defense". I think it is more the fact that this approach re-balances things a bit more.
  • Oddly, I have been seeing a few more penalties since using this approach....that is likely unrelated; but we also know the game is "happier" when things are nice and balanced.
  • I still recommend the use of modified offensive schemes, but I am going to re-work them as I believe the 'balanced scheme' is less of an issue now (and I think I am going to start shying away more from the vertical schemes).
  • I still sometimes see too many vertical/shot plays, but I think that is as much a by-product of certain playbooks (and use of the vertical scheme). However, I would say that overall, it is better.

So, in summary:
  1. Take control of the CPU coach the WEEK BEFORE your game (if starting a new franchise, this means you have to start in preseason)
  2. Once CPU coach is under your control, advance to the next week (i.e. the week of your game)
  3. For the CPU coach, change the offensive gameplannng to "Red Zone Offense" and defensive to "Red Zone Defense" (both are near the bottom of the list). Simulate the training. If you want to adjust their offensive scheme, you can do that here too. You may retire the CPU coach once done.
  4. For the User coach, change the offensive gameplannng to "Red Zone Offense" and defensive to "Red Zone Defense" (both are near the bottom of the list). Simulate the training.
  5. Play your game.
  6. Once that game is ended, don't forget to take control of the CPU coach for your next game before advancing.
  7. Repeat Steps 1-6.

Now, I was going to gather more data on this and get some private feedback from a few people I sent this to before I posted it fully; but I've been thinking a lot about it. The outcome isn't quite as much of a 'slam dunk' as I originally thought it would be; but I can say for a fact that I am seeing some CPU teams call plays I've never seen them call before. So, while the data do conflict, there is enough 'good' there that I wanted to at least get some more eyes on this.
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:01 PM   #3678
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshC1977
So....let's talk about the gameplanning function within CFM....while I know we're only a couple of months away from M18, I am hoping that some of this is useful for us moving forward. The game plan and weekly training elements were new to M17 and as we know, sometimes new features leave behind some unintended artifacts.

So, you pick your point of emphasis for offense and defense for that week then sim through (or play) the actual training. You get boosts on those types of plays as being a part of your "gameplan". In the play selection menu, you get the little green icons that pop up and indicate that it is a "gameplan play". What if the CPU is using those gameplan plays far too often (thus causing them to run the same types of plays over and over....the biggest offenders being stick patterns, "shots", and verticals). I mean, seriously, some teams call stick patterns 50-60% of the time...even if you stop it.

I started experimenting to see what would happen if I manually set the CPU's gameplan. So, I ran the initial experiment versus the Bengals (who in my experiences, are notorious for running stick patterns over and over). I took control of their coach the week BEFORE I played them (if you wait until the week you play them to take control of their coach, they will have already completed the drills so you can't do this). Now, as I looked at all of the gameplanning options, I noticed some that were not specific to play types ("situation" options).

So, for the experiment, I set their gameplanning emphasis to "Red Zone Offense" and "Red Zone Defense" and I did the same for mine. The two red zone emphasis drills make all plays (when within the red zone) "gameplan plays" and give the boosts there. By setting the CPU and User gameplans to those drills, they essentially "cancel out" the boosts (albeit, at a slightly boosted level). Also, teams get "amped-up" in the red zone in real life; so this feels a bit more "sim" in some respects.

So, fired it up....my god....the CPU play-calling (with their default 'balanced offense' scheme) was SO much better. They were calling a much wider variety of plays and were actually catching me off-guard on occasion. I even had a tougher time cracking their defense...

Now....I have run a few other possible options as far as gameplan drills. I've settled on the redzone offense/defense being the most reliable approach.

Here is what I know and don't know:
  • I cannot directly correlate the drill used to how often a team calls a play. In other words, if the CPU drills on a "Cover 1", I don't necessarily see them calling more Cover 1 plays. But, I have nowhere near the statistically-significant sample size I would need to prove/disprove this. Frankly, I am not going to take it quite this far.
  • However, for whatever reason, there appears to be an improvement in CPU game-calling variety when setting the gameplan to "red zone offense/defense". I think it is more the fact that this approach re-balances things a bit more.
  • Oddly, I have been seeing a few more penalties since using this approach....that is likely unrelated; but we also know the game is "happier" when things are nice and balanced.
  • I still recommend the use of modified offensive schemes, but I am going to re-work them as I believe the 'balanced scheme' is less of an issue now (and I think I am going to start shying away more from the vertical schemes).
  • I still sometimes see too many vertical/shot plays, but I think that is as much a by-product of certain playbooks (and use of the vertical scheme). However, I would say that overall, it is better.

So, in summary:
  1. Take control of the CPU coach the WEEK BEFORE your game (if starting a new franchise, this means you have to start in preseason)
  2. Once CPU coach is under your control, advance to the next week (i.e. the week of your game)
  3. For the CPU coach, change the offensive gameplannng to "Red Zone Offense" and defensive to "Red Zone Defense" (both are near the bottom of the list). Simulate the training. If you want to adjust their offensive scheme, you can do that here too. You may retire the CPU coach once done.
  4. For the User coach, change the offensive gameplannng to "Red Zone Offense" and defensive to "Red Zone Defense" (both are near the bottom of the list). Simulate the training.
  5. Play your game.
  6. Once that game is ended, don't forget to take control of the CPU coach for your next game before advancing.
  7. Repeat Steps 1-6.

Now, I was going to gather more data on this and get some private feedback from a few people I sent this to before I posted it fully; but I've been thinking a lot about it. The outcome isn't quite as much of a 'slam dunk' as I originally thought it would be; but I can say for a fact that I am seeing some CPU teams call plays I've never seen them call before. So, while the data do conflict, there is enough 'good' there that I wanted to at least get some more eyes on this.


Josh was going to PM u but u already let the cat out the bag..sorry work been killing me..

here is what I saw, again very small sample size..I left the scheme's untouched for my sample..first scheme was vert scheme..also used red zone game plan..what shocked me was the CPU called a four vert play a total of 7 times throughout the game..now compared to what I normally see this was a huge Plus..I also played against balance and can agree balance scheme by the CPU was very nice!

Defensively I saw a huge difference in play calling no where near the amount of cover 1 press bull****..I'm sold "so far" and for now unless something changes moving off CPU custom playbooks..which I been using for months..


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Old 06-12-2017, 08:13 PM   #3679
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by StefJoeHalt
Josh was going to PM u but u already let the cat out the bag..sorry work been killing me..

here is what I saw, again very small sample size..I left the scheme's untouched for my sample..first scheme was vert scheme..also used red zone game plan..what shocked me was the CPU called a four vert play a total of 7 times throughout the game..now compared to what I normally see this was a huge Plus..I also played against balance and can agree balance scheme by the CPU was very nice!

Defensively I saw a huge difference in play calling no where near the amount of cover 1 press bull****..I'm sold "so far" and for now unless something changes moving off CPU custom playbooks..which I been using for months..


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No problem man; I was thinking of waiting but decided I'd rather have the feedback in the forum for all to see, so I am very happy you saw this and posted here. Sounds like your experiences are very much in-line with what I've been seeing with default playbooks.

I'd still like to bang-out a season or two before M18 drops. At the very least, if we have play-calling issues in Madden 18, at least we will have another tool at our disposal to use to try to rectify it.
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:22 PM   #3680
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Re: JoshC1977's M17 Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshC1977
No problem man; I was thinking of waiting but decided I'd rather have the feedback in the forum for all to see, so I am very happy you saw this and posted here. Sounds like your experiences are very much in-line with what I've been seeing with default playbooks.

I'd still like to bang-out a season or two before M18 drops. At the very least, if we have play-calling issues in Madden 18, at least we will have another tool at our disposal to use to try to rectify it.


Completely agree..not only that but I believe custom playbooks negatively effect this "default" setting..me and u already talked privately about the profile..and its effect on settings..but what I'm realizing is I believe the extra profile needed to use custom playbooks only adds to the issues


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