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M17 XP Slider Discussion

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Old 08-23-2016, 09:08 PM   #41
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Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskins04
Fantastic work TDawg! Will you post a full XP slider set once you're done with your findings?
No doubt. I'll probably start my own thread just to consolidate things as well.

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Old 08-23-2016, 09:09 PM   #42
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Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lowe
Like TE, with end of year progression, it seems to be QB should be back at 100 as well.
What? There is no way there should be 36 NFL QB's 80+. The real NFL has maybe 15 - 20 QB's at that level. At 36 every single team could have a competent QB, in reality maaaybe half the teams have a adequate player at that position.

Great work on this overall though. Gives a great baseline to work with.
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Old 08-23-2016, 09:26 PM   #43
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Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajiky
What? There is no way there should be 36 NFL QB's 80+. The real NFL has maybe 15 - 20 QB's at that level. At 36 every single team could have a competent QB, in reality maaaybe half the teams have a adequate player at that position.

Great work on this overall though. Gives a great baseline to work with.
Sim a season with a 80 Ovr QB. It won't be that great. Just average at best. You're missing the part that has only 1 at 95+ (elite), 2 are 90+ (All Pro), 11 at 85+ (Can achieve Pro Bowl level), and 22 at 80+ which is average. It's not perfectly ideal and I'd love to thin out the bottom some but for Madden that's not bad at all. If you drop it anymore you would never have that Elite guy.

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Old 08-23-2016, 09:32 PM   #44
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Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

Yeah after I posted I did figure out the catch 22 you're in there. 80 is supposed to be kind of the cutoff point where a Madden player is a solid starter so I guess part of the issue is in real life QB is the one position that there are way more league wide starting positions available then there are quality players to start in them.
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Old 08-23-2016, 11:17 PM   #45
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Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajiky
Yeah after I posted I did figure out the catch 22 you're in there. 80 is supposed to be kind of the cutoff point where a Madden player is a solid starter so I guess part of the issue is in real life QB is the one position that there are way more league wide starting positions available then there are quality players to start in them.
For most positions 80 would roughly be when you start considering a player a worthy starter but comparing an 80 ovr QB to an 80 ovr at another position just isn't comparing apples to apples. From my experience simming 3 seasons most QBs under 90 rating performed meh, and occasionally one or two of the 85-89ers popped off.

What concerns me is the influx of 80-84 players at so many positions. Right now in the first few seasons most teams start several players in the 70-79 range. If the average rating rises by too much at too many positions it will water down the value of the 90+ player.

I think this effect would have the least impact at QB though, and the most impact with WR, OL. LBs. and DBs though. WR, OL, and DBs all need a boost to see a few studs on the upper end, but also bring in a pretty large cluster of talent on the lower 80s end. LB's can almost definitely be run under 100% especially OLB's, I was able to raise mine up very easily and I think this has something to do with weekly training. From what I can tell linebackers will get a bonus no matter what defensive gameplan you choose for the week.

On offense you're always excluding multiple position groups. From what I can tell so far the improvements can either be QB/WR, WR/TE, RB/OL however with defense you can train a run defense which improves your DL/LB core or a pass defense which improves your DB/LB group. So LBs seem to get more benefit from gameplanning than any other position from what I can tell.

One other thing that plays a factor here is the draft. In my 3 offseason drafts there's been a trend for the first 2 rounds to be loaded and the vast majority of the 3rd and 4th round comes up as undrafted quality players. Realistically though there's 30 and possibly even more 75+ ovr players coming into the league every year. This could be the source of the influx in 80-84 players, which is made up of the wealth of first and second round draft picks with normal/slow development traits.

Oh and I'd imagine yearly awards has a lot to do with who has a realistic shot of becoming 95+ I drafted an OLB my first season in the first round, 79 ovr with superstar development, pretty good. By the end of the year he was an 84 but that's only because I spend 15k xp on speed and acceleration.

The next year I get pick 4 and the #1 rated prospect in the draft falls to me so I have to take him. 83 ovr, superstar development. The sim gods made him really good, I was expecting him to win DROY for a nice bonus but got one better when he won AFC DPOY as well. I had him as one of my 3 players to give bonus xp to, and he got 600xp every single week bc of the way defensive gameplanning is so he totaled out a whopping 62k xp on the season. Even with the xp spent on expensive physical attributes I was able to push his ovr to 93 after his rookie season.

A QB is always going to win MVP which helps keep a healthy number of them in the 90+ range. A LB is usually going to win DPOY which helps their elite status.

TLR
There's a few variables at play when it comes to progression other than xp sliders, namely yearly awards (possibly weekly awards as well). The draft introducing 30+ players who will likely progress between 80 and 90 within 3-4 seasons may be a cause of the influx of players in the 80-84 range, especially at QB where hitting that ovr is achievable with 6k xp into awareness for multiple QBs in every draft. Linebackers are the only position group that is never excluded in game planning giving them bonus xp.

What this means as far as xp sliders:

If I'm right about the influx of 80-84 players being independent of the xp slider and basically something that is going to be unavoidable because of the quality of players available in the first 2 rounds of the draft then you no longer have to concern yourself with the impact of xp sliders on the number of players in the 80-84 range. Basically those players are going to be there no matter what you do unless you lower the slider to the point studs no longer appear. What you can control with the xp slider is how many of those players get bumped into the 85-89 and above ratings.

Basically my theory is you have a lot more direct control over who gets to 85+ with the xp slider than who makes it to 80+ and further increasing of the slider should show a bigger impact on who makes it past 85 ovr than 80 ovr. If I'm right you can get more 90+ players without creating too many more 80s. The risk you run is pushing too large of a portion of players into the 85-89 range in the process.

Last edited by bdubbs; 08-23-2016 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 08-23-2016, 11:36 PM   #46
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Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdawg3782
2nd sim is in the books:

Rules: 75 Man Preseason Roster/XP Sliders adjusted (details by position)/Progress set to Every 4 Weeks

How to read chart: Base is how many players were rated in each group and +10 Years is how many after simming 10 seasons. The % is just the % of players rated in each group to give you a visual that way. Total is the total amount of players rated 80+.

QB(90%):
Spoiler


HB(120%):
Spoiler


FB(100%):
Spoiler


WR(110%):
Spoiler


TE(90%):
Spoiler


T(110%):
Spoiler


G(130%):
Spoiler


C(130%):
Spoiler


DE(100%):
Spoiler


DT(100%):
Spoiler


OLB(90%):
Spoiler


MLB(100%):
Spoiler


CB(120%):
Spoiler


FS(100%):
Spoiler


SS(90%):
Spoiler


K(100%):
Spoiler


P(100%):
Spoiler


2nd sim is in the books. I think I've locked down most of the positions. Will do another sim when I can to try to nail down those final few positions. Also any input is welcome. If someone has a good idea I'm all ears.

What I have so far:
Spoiler
Well done 👍

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Old 08-24-2016, 11:16 AM   #47
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Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdawg3782
I ran two 10 year test sims last year playing with the xp sliders to try to find some good balance. I'll start today and start running some more. I plan on doing as many as it takes to get a really good baseline. The way I do it is as follows:

-Use Preseason roster
-Set all positions to balanced in scheme to get the basic Ovr of players
-Write down how many players are 95-99,90-94,85-89, and 80-84 for each position and get a percentage
-Set XP for every 4 weeks
-Set XP Values (will start with default 100%)
-Sim 10 seasons and write down new data to compare to base data

I'll probably have my 1st sim done in a few hours or less.
Great Job! loving the Data just have a question where ar you getting the player overalls from? For example followed the way you set it up exactly and FB M. Reece was only 85 ovr not 90+ unless you are pulling the numbers from Player Management under Manage Rosters. There was only 1 QB above 95+ and that was A. Rodgers. Just trying to make sure i'm doing this right
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Old 08-24-2016, 02:31 PM   #48
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Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

A question. Are you changing coaching schemes for every team for balanced player types? If not other teams are developing players for overall of their player type, not to be the best balanced.
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