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RFF's M17 Sim League USER v USER Sliders

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Old 02-12-2017, 02:31 PM   #73
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Re: RFF's M17 Sim League USER v USER Sliders

Overdue for a very big update. I've been gradually making a few adjustments here in our 5th season and feel like we're in a very good place again for a number of metrics I care about (scoring is looking even better than season 3 so far).

Updated sliders we are currently using have been added to the OP (and final S3 settings have been archived, like for S1).

Here's a detailed analysis/explanation of the changes & our league metrics so far:

SLIDER ADJUSTMENTS
Fatigue +1 (60)
Injury -2 (40)


One issue that I see in basically every single league is that even when team rushing is very well balanced, individual rushing #s are off the charts. RBs regularly get 25+ carries. I wish I could tell you 60 fatigue solves this, but it doesn't. However, every bit helps. What fatigue also does is make guys more likely to get hurt when they're tired, so at least players who never sub their guys out are risking injury. However, at higher fatigue levels, injuries in general get a bit higher, so I've lowered that setting a couple points to make it up. We still get enough injuries league-wide that almost every team has 1-2 guys hurt and guys grump about it a little bit (which is a good sign). I will probably not go any higher than 60, RB isn't affected enough to make up for throwing other things out of whack. Just accept it's a Madden problem sliders probably cannot fix: a balanced run game overall will still have too many 1500+ yd rushers because RB1's get too many carries.

SPD Disparity +10 (70)

This one could be controversial, but I feel very strongly about it. We ran 60 during seasons 1-3. I wanted to go higher for a number of reasons but didn't quite have enough data saying it was absolutely necessary. A few popular offline CFM sets have moved toward 60-90 level on this slider. I could go into great detail as to why it's simply more realistic, why a 96 spd WR should not out-run an 89 spd CB by 5 steps over 30-40 yds given what would boil down to like a 0.15 second difference in combine times. It also makes man coverage a bit more viable and DBs playing at the LOS slightly less risky (which is good... watch an NFL game, DBs play at the LOS all the time). Doesn't FIX these issues, but it helps a bit. But one of the reasons we need it now is a number of teams have drafted 95-96 spd WRs and they are just running past defenses even in off coverage. This is virtually impossible to do in the NFL. These WRs are breaking our passing stats: our coverage is in a good place but the pure speed was leading to some absurd #s. Note I did NOT raise the SPD disparity +10 all at once, I always make very small changes and see how they go each week. We are at 70 now and I'm seeing passing stats come back down to earth now, finally. *Probably* good to sit at 70 now, but not ruling out further bumps if necessary. To paraphrase Flazko in his set, "the NFL is a game of inches," and with higher SPD disparity you will see that. You may have a few members grumping about how "DTs are running down HBs," but I'm sorry, this is patently false. The gap between them is narrowed and DEs can protect the edge a bit better (side benefit: allows inside runs to balance better), but you will not see DTs faster than RB. It's just not true.

QB Acc -5 (18)
Pass Block +1 (55)
Run Block +3 (67)
Pass D Reaction -2 (51)
Pass Coverage +5 (80)
Illegal Block -1 (49)


These can all be summed up as further balancing the run/pass game against each other & around 70 spd disparity. I have done a better job at balancing the run game for where the MIDDLE of the league is rather than the league average. I have accepted that this is the internet and you will get some flukish extremes at the top (occasional 260 yd rushing games) when there is a large skill gap between users. If you allow these giant games to influence results too much, you will have over half the league averaging well below NFL median rushing numbers. We also have teams who sub an extra S for a LB in a lot of sets, and these teams should be more vulnerable to the run. So, again, you will see the occasional too-high individual RB game, but if you accept that, overall league median rushing will be very nice vs the NFL with these settings, and it will lead to better scoring #s. A healthier run game I've found can sometimes *reduce* total scoring #s, since teams trust the run more and may score fewer offensive points but conversely can avoid more INTs & strip-sacks in their own territory, which is often a major cause of high scoring #s.

We still had to bump coverage as our WR talent has simply eclipsed our CB talent over all our drafts, but made an adjustment to Reaction Time to try to slightly lessen DBs jumping passes, etc.


GAME/SCORING

Scoring overall is in a very good place at the moment. My goal is to hover around .400 pts per snap, which is a little higher than the NFL and thus will lead to around NFL-level PPG. As you can see, things started to get a little high in S3 & the start of S5, but we've been able to bring that back down with the above changes. It's also worth noting that due to our turnovers being higher, a significant part of why our scoring is a bit higher than the NFL is because of turnovers leading to points rather than offenses themselves being too powerful.






YARDAGE

We'll go over efficiency #s in a moment, as they are the real way to balance gameplay itself, but none-the-less it's important to monitor total yardage to make sure your league's players aren't passing/rushing for way above or below NFL numbers. Nobody wants the top QB to throw for 3,900 yds.





PASSING

As always, most human players go deep or go home. They pass it further through the air, they drop back in the pocket, they rarely if ever call for extra blockers even in the face of a blitz. Now add in the hugely-overpowered Ball Hawk feature, which turns half the league's MLBs into the greatest coverage backer the NFL would have ever seen, a feature which sliders cannot influence at all, and INT rates are always going to be high unless your coverage settings are so low that the passing game becomes absurdly overpowered. It's pick your poison, and I'd rather pick INTs/sacks being high, because at least that means the trade-off is fairly realistic, even if users make different choices than NFL QBs/HCs which leads to different results. Note that we do have players who are below NFL averages for INT & sack rates, they tend to check down more & punt more, turn the ball over far less, and play good defense. You can win championships this way. But as a whole, the league is hyper aggressive, and from what I've seen, other leagues are at LEAST as aggressive as we are and probably moreso.

As long as passing so aggressively downfield leads to higher sacks & INTs and a lower comp%, then the trade-off is fair, even if some long-time Madden players who have been trained to think throwing it 15-20 yds into the middle of the field strength against soft coverage is just how NFL QBs play (hint: it isn't) and will therefore get grumpy when this becomes more difficult/risky.





Interesting note on sacks...anytime I've made a meaningful change to coverage or pass blocking to curtail when passing numbers were starting to get too high, I've seen a sudden bump in sacks followed by the league "adjusting" back downward as they get used to it...which is good. Guys learn to get the ball out quicker.


Though, I don't see this same adjustment for INTs...



RUSHING

As I said, the run game is in a healthy place. I may have to tweak -1 RBK at some point, but for now it looks solid. We do see some way-too-high flukey RB games at the extremes (we've had 2 games where a RB ran for 260+ yds), but by balancing for the middle of the league/median, this has been a boon for scoring and keeping the bulk of the league dedicated to the run. Starting RB stats are too high and as I get more weeks of data, the run game may need a -1 adjustment... but I think that's generally just because backup RBs seem to all fare much worse than starters in Madden compared to the NFL. RBs therefore probably "matter more" in Madden. So a balanced overall team rushing attack might lead to too many league leaders averaging 4.8-5.9 YPC.






Aaaand /novel.

As I said, I am still monitoring a few things, so a few of these sliders could be adjusted +1/2 or -1/2, but this feels pretty close for season 5 now.

Thanks to all who made it this far!
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Last edited by Aestis; 02-14-2017 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 02-14-2017, 03:08 PM   #74
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Re: RFF's M17 Sim League USER v USER Sliders

Note EA just came out with a tuning update today that supposedly affects both tackling and offensive line play in a meaningful way. I will see how things go over the next week and post an update soon if this throws anything out of whack.
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Old 02-14-2017, 06:10 PM   #75
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Re: RFF's M17 Sim League USER v USER Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aestis
Note EA just came out with a tuning update today that supposedly affects both tackling and offensive line play in a meaningful way. I will see how things go over the next week and post an update soon if this throws anything out of whack.
Was just about to ask about that!
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:26 AM   #76
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Re: RFF's M17 Sim League USER v USER Sliders

yeah i was too, interested to see how you feel sliders should change now, since it seems attributes for o and d line seem to matter again . As well as some other things. Interested to see your changes.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:28 AM   #77
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Re: RFF's M17 Sim League USER v USER Sliders

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Originally Posted by howboutdat
yeah i was too, interested to see how you feel sliders should change now, since it seems attributes for o and d line seem to matter again . As well as some other things. Interested to see your changes.

Anecdotally from seeing stats from & watching a couple games, I feel like things got thrown significantly out of whack in both the run & pass game. Not sure by how much yet, need more games to measure. Hopefully it's a net/net positive in the end. Should have some kind of an initial update by the end of this weekend.
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Old 02-16-2017, 02:47 PM   #78
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Re: RFF's M17 Sim League USER v USER Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aestis
Anecdotally from seeing stats from & watching a couple games, I feel like things got thrown significantly out of whack in both the run & pass game. Not sure by how much yet, need more games to measure. Hopefully it's a net/net positive in the end. Should have some kind of an initial update by the end of this weekend.
looking forward to it!thanks alot!
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Old 02-20-2017, 09:31 AM   #79
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Re: RFF's M17 Sim League USER v USER Sliders

Quick update post-tuning patch:

INTs & sacks increased noticeably when this patch went live, higher than even where I'm comfortable. Completion % and passing yardage dropped. Scoring dropped.

I'm likely not finished, as we still aren't back to where I want us to be, but here's where I have us heading into week 9 (anything not listed was not touched)...this is after 2 game weeks' worth of data and represents my 2nd round of adjustments:

QB Acc: 25 (+7)
Pass Blk: 60 (+5)
Catching: 54 (+2)
Run Blk: 70 (+2)
Pass D Reaction: 49 (-2)
Tackle: 48 (+2)


Basically, I upped tackling +2 and run blocking slightly to compensate. Too many huge runs off a single DB broken tackle on the edge were inflating rushing #s in an otherwise healthy run game.

As you can see, I've upped the pass game considerably. If passing gets too good with this second wave of changes, I will up coverage further, but so far our league was really struggling in the pass game.
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Old 02-21-2017, 08:13 AM   #80
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Re: RFF's M17 Sim League USER v USER Sliders

Just started a new 32 user Fantasy Draft league. Looking for some help for how to adapt your sliders. We're at the beginning of season 1 and run 8 minute quarters.

I think we could deal with the lower points/stats of 8 minute quarters if the gameplay feels right.

I'm more concerned that your season one sliders appear to have fallen out of date with the latest patch level?

Last edited by keylimesoda; 02-21-2017 at 08:16 AM.
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