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Old 12-06-2016, 03:21 PM   #49
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Re: RFF's M17 Sim League USER v USER Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aestis
Thanks man, hope you enjoy them!

The CPU slider question is one I often get and is very tricky to answer, which is why I don't include them in the post. It's trickier to make CPU sliders for a 32-person league than it is for a solo CFM, because it depends so heavily on what a CPU game means to you. Is it..

...a free win where you don't care about any stats?
...a free win but you don't want stats to get too crazy?
...a win MOST of the time, but you don't mind a CPU winning here and there?
...a tough, close game where the CPU team should win a good half the time?

Different leagues handle CPU games very differently.

For a tough/good game, I'd advise using a CPU slider set on this forum. Charter, A&S, whatever you like. I don't play vs the CPU much so I don't have an opinion on which works best.

For my league, a CPU game is more or less a 'free' win, but I don't want stats to go crazy. Therefore, I just use our defensive sliders for CPU defense, but I plummet the offensive CPU sliders super low... like 1 QB Acc, 30 catching, 5 PBK/RBK. This at least minimizes the "Robo All Madden QB" effect while keeping the defense decent enough to keep everyone from dropping 40-50+ pts every game. By NO means do I claim doing this leads to a super fun, realistic, gritty game vs the CPU. You'll get a lot of open CPU WRs dropping the ball to counterbalance the All Madden QB. It's designed so the human wins almost every time. Just our league philosophy that we want as many user games as possible. We should not have CPU games unless one guy cannot play, in which case the other gets the 'free win.'

But in a 16-team CFM, as some here are, or a league whose philosophy is that your CPU team should be about as tough as your user team, I recommend looking into a CPU slider set on these forums. It's still not going to be perfect, as user RBK + PBK is buffed up a bit, due to humans being so much better at the pass rush + run stuffing, so you may want to consider taking a CPU set and slightly bumping a couple sliders accordingly to make up for my 'USER' set in USER vs CPU games (e.g. perhaps give CPU Tackle a +1 boost to make up for USER higher RBK...).

Hopefully that answers your question somewhat.

Thanks, yes we dont often have an open team, but once in a while it happens, or a guy cant make a game. We actually tend to side on , wanting cpu to be tough, a challenge to beat, which we currently have , so maybe we will just keep those the same.We like to make people work for it haha.

Another question: i noticed you run on 12 min quarters with 18 sec on run off clock. About how long does an average league game take to get done like that? and about what is your average plays run by both teams in a game?

Just curious, we run at 8 min with no run off, takes close to or just over an hour, im assuming yours is about the same .


Also, do you think playing on a slower speed ( game speed) would matter with sliders?We run on slow. Im thinking not , but have an admin wondering , your take?
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Old 12-06-2016, 05:08 PM   #50
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Re: RFF's M17 Sim League USER v USER Sliders

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Originally Posted by howboutdat
Another question: i noticed you run on 12 min quarters with 18 sec on run off clock. About how long does an average league game take to get done like that? and about what is your average plays run by both teams in a game?

Just curious, we run at 8 min with no run off, takes close to or just over an hour, im assuming yours is about the same .
Our games typically take between 1:05 and 1:15 to complete, from what I've seen. I don't want a typical game to run 1.5 hours, that's too long. We average about 115-118 offensive snaps per game, whereas NFL averages 128. With shorter quarters you might run into some stats being 'too low' as our sliders are optimized for JUST below NFL-level per-play success. Meaning, should be lots of defense, because you get more possessions to score & gain yards. On shorter quarters, those 100+ yd rushing games may be a lot tougher to come by, just a fair warning.


Quote:
Originally Posted by howboutdat
Also, do you think playing on a slower speed ( game speed) would matter with sliders?We run on slow. Im thinking not , but have an admin wondering , your take?
I think overall it would make offense a bit easier, as QB you'd have a bit more time to make your reads & as RB you have that extra fraction of a second to read your blocks, but I'm speculating. I could see user defense being a bit easier too, for all the above reasons, but net/net I think that favors the offense. Given your shorter quarters & noticeably fewer snaps, that may not be a bad thing.
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Old 12-13-2016, 08:54 PM   #51
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Re: RFF's M17 Sim League USER v USER Sliders

How's the new season going?

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Old 12-21-2016, 11:25 AM   #52
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Re: RFF's M17 Sim League USER v USER Sliders

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How's the new season going?

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Thanks for asking! Scoring started to get too high in S3 around week 4, so I've been tweaking some things to bring everything back into line the past several Madden weeks. Finally I have what I feel is a strong set for season 3.

Noteworthy changes:
  • PASSING. The pass game started to get too good, which was one of the two key drivers of higher scoring. I attribute this in part to users improving at the game, learning to read a D better, in part to two full seasons of QB development leading to QBs becoming very (too) accurate, and in part to our CB classes being atrocious and unable to replace regressing star CBs. I suspect the first two things are happening in every league, guys get better over time. The latter may not be as bad in other leagues with better draft classes, hard to say. In any case I have dropped QB Acc a bit and bumped pass coverage. I've dropped Pass D Reaction a few points which is an influencer on INTs. 50-53 feels like the right range when coverage is already solid. This won't solve the issue of high INTs (only users can solve that one), but it helps a little bit.
  • RUNNING. I've gone back and forth between 63-64. 63 leads to some low YPC weeks, a bit lower than I'd like like. 64 was leading to some high weeks, a bit higher than the range I'd like. I've seen it elsewhere that PDRT affects the run game slightly, so a lower PDRT I am hoping will allow me to keep RBK at 64. For now it seems solid, as you can see in the graphs below. Could lead to some slightly higher YPC at times, but within the range I'm shooting for. More incentive for offenses to run and punish Ds who drop back into coverage is not necessarily a bad thing, either.
  • FUMBLES. Quite frankly, 80 is going to lead to a too-low fumbling rate, but I still recommend the 78-80 range. Primarily, I found that the second reason scoring was getting high for us even after nerfing the pass sliders above was NOT because offense was too good. It was because there were too many defensive TDs & other ill-timed TOs in an offense's own territory, leading to too many easy points. A large part of this is INTs, of course, but again, that's user error for not playing safer on their side of the field. None the less, it was leading to some higher scores than I feel comfortable with. PBK at 54 leads to a slightly higher sack rate & a slightly lower completion % than the NFL (which is fair since Madden players pass noticeably deeper than the NFL), but keeping the fumble slider higher prevents as many strip/sacks, especially the ones allowing offenses to start on an opponent's 25-35 yd line.

After making these changes, scoring has come back down to earth & passing/rushing appear to be in good places. INTs remain high, as always, but that's the trade-off for the league being so aggressive. A number of teams are NOT throwing INTs at sky-high rates, either because they play more safely or because they have the personnel/skill to pass aggressively. 32 teams will not have the ability to do this, and it's reflected in the data.

A few graphs from S3 to illustrate the above trends (will update OP when I can):

Points coming back down to Earth...


Rushing in a pretty good place...


Passing...Yds thrown in the air high, thus Sacks a bit higher & Comp% a bit lower than NFL levels. Fair tradeoff...




Dropping the fumble rate to get defensive scoring under control...


Just so you can see it... adjusted penalty yds per 100 snaps...
Note: "Adjusted" I look at the penalty yardage rates for the penalties that are actually called in Madden. In other words, a significant % of NFL penalties are things like unsportsmanlike conduct, etc. Personal fouls that don't exist in Madden. We don't want Holding or Offsides to be called twice as often to match the overall NFL penalty rate. We only care about the NFL penalties that exist in Madden. This is my best stab at this.
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Last edited by Aestis; 12-21-2016 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 12-21-2016, 11:45 AM   #53
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Re: RFF's M17 Sim League USER v USER Sliders

Does your league have a daddyleagues.com if so can I get a link so I can check out stats thx.

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Old 12-21-2016, 12:59 PM   #54
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Re: RFF's M17 Sim League USER v USER Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loc1225
Does your league have a daddyleagues.com if so can I get a link so I can check out stats thx.

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Yep, though note my charts above exclude any simmed or User vs CPU games which would skew the #s. I only track & balance for User v User games. Also note anyone who has been traded has doubled stats, so you will see some super funky individual numbers (e.g. Cam Newton & Paxton Lynch do not each have 4k yds passing through week 11.. first ~8 weeks their stats are counted twice). So peruse away at your peril.

daddyleagues.com/awfl
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Old 12-21-2016, 01:02 PM   #55
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Re: RFF's M17 Sim League USER v USER Sliders

OK thx

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Old 12-29-2016, 03:45 PM   #56
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Re: RFF's M17 Sim League USER v USER Sliders

Good stuff.

I am holding a madden tournament. Should we go by the season 1 or 3 sliders? Also, how is your substitutions and injuries? Thank you.
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