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Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

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Old 10-07-2016, 03:33 AM   #17
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Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

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Originally Posted by StefJoeHalt
So I pulled out an old quote above...based on this and "adembroski" had hands on knowledge from old team..it appears they started the change to pass strength/footwork.****n block strength footwork. And the Simple ratings "RUN Block and Pass BLOCK" were for SIM games.. Now, I cant seem to find recent quote, but I do recall something along the lines of those ratings were flipped...it would appear that yes those rating are still in use in game..especially if code is written on top of each other. Which is a complete shame to the game and us as the players.
I knew those ratings still effected actual gameplay and EA has many guys thinking that the actual run block and pass block ratings are the in game ratings....

So at the end of the day beyond the pass bock slider there is absolutely nothing we can do when it comes to pass blocking.....

We are basically relying on a broken slider that renders very minimal results on the field...

Now i know this might not be a big deal to some people but for someone like myself who has actually witnessed what pass block strength and footwork can do to this game i think it's a asinine that EA locked these ratings

Lets think about this for moment....

You can take your entire OL and edit them down to 150 pounds with 25 pass block and 25 run block and they will all still perform as if they were 300 pounds and had 80-90 pass block and run block ratings simply because of the locked hidden ratings by EA.

So for anyone who ever wondered why pass block at 0, 25, 50, 75 or 100 all felt just about the same it's because that slider truly doesn't effect anyone's ratings it just increases or decreases the radius of the OL to engage a DL

it doesn't have any effect on matchups what so ever......

Ea actually controls how effective the pass rush is in madden.....we are basically forced to play the game one way and one way only when it comes to OL vs DL matchups and that's their way.

I guess the best way around this is to make sure in CFM that you create the OL PLAYERS yourself....,,but I'm not you can modify those hidden ratings even for draft class or created OL players either.
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Old 10-07-2016, 08:18 AM   #18
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Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playmakers
I knew those ratings still effected actual gameplay and EA has many guys thinking that the actual run block and pass block ratings are the in game ratings....

So at the end of the day beyond the pass bock slider there is absolutely nothing we can do when it comes to pass blocking.....

We are basically relying on a broken slider that renders very minimal results on the field...

Now i know this might not be a big deal to some people but for someone like myself who has actually witnessed what pass block strength and footwork can do to this game i think it's a asinine that EA locked these ratings

Lets think about this for moment....

You can take your entire OL and edit them down to 150 pounds with 25 pass block and 25 run block and they will all still perform as if they were 300 pounds and had 80-90 pass block and run block ratings simply because of the locked hidden ratings by EA.

So for anyone who ever wondered why pass block at 0, 25, 50, 75 or 100 all felt just about the same it's because that slider truly doesn't effect anyone's ratings it just increases or decreases the radius of the OL to engage a DL

it doesn't have any effect on matchups what so ever......

Ea actually controls how effective the pass rush is in madden.....we are basically forced to play the game one way and one way only when it comes to OL vs DL matchups and that's their way.

I guess the best way around this is to make sure in CFM that you create the OL PLAYERS yourself....,,but I'm not you can modify those hidden ratings even for draft class or created OL players either.


Yea I created a player last night and there is no way to adjust those ratings. They don't show up at all.

So there is no way to change it.


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Old 10-07-2016, 12:39 PM   #19
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Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

On a whim I decided to take NT’s (with ratings of 45 in said footwork) and plug them in to the tackle positions. No difference. They blocked as well as any actual tackle. This was on AP, in CFM and with zero slider adjustments. I only observed for one game–so small sampling, but still. Is it possible the game simply sets a baseline rating regardless of what we plug in at the line positions?
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Old 10-07-2016, 05:06 PM   #20
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Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

what about in CFM, can we change many of the Guards/Centers "tackle type" and "player development" in the "edit player" menu ?

and do we know the scale that EA uses for PBS/PBF, according to the type of Guard/Center we edit ?

otherwise, I guess we are SOL on this one for time being.
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Old 10-08-2016, 12:35 AM   #21
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Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

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Originally Posted by Playmakers
Nope because it still comes down to their Pass Block Strength and Pass Block Footwork

You can change the player to zone blocker or mauler but at the end of the day your still not effecting their actual pass block strength or footwork

Ideally you'd like to get as many players reduced down in strength so that you can see more interactions out of the defenders when they are engaged with a blocker.

As it stands now it's almost impossible to see a DL blow up a blocker or just over power him because of those ratings being locked

To put things into perspective Reggie White in his prime couldn't over power a backup Tackle in Madden because EA has the pass block strength ratings too high....

They don't use a 0-99 scale for OL they seem to use a 60-99 scale and that's why player seperation is almost non existent between the OL players.

Just about every team has the same OL style of play do to these skill ratings being locked....

If we could manually go in like TOMBA mentioned and globally edit these players you would then clearly see seperation on the field from team to team even with the default slider being left at 50.
I know when i was doing ncaa classic rosters, i played around with extremes of agility, acceleration. Average strength on those rosters i did was anywhere between 75 and 85. Unless I knew real specific about physical attributes. Lot of guess work done with these positions. I do know that agility does have an effect on defensive lineman. I'd give those true plugger nose guards very low agility. Maybe even 0. They didn't make as many tackles, they just clogged up the field. Really helps if you run a 3-4.

For the all time great offensive lineman, i'd bump their hit power and tackle ratings and it seemed like it had an effect. It gave them an extra gear. Could have been a placebo. My theory was, it made them either superior athletes or just big slow guys that are just good at being big. Just depends on which extreme you go.
I think for Tebow, Bo, Cam, Hershel and maybe Tommie Frazier, I played around with their tackle and hit power ratings on the other side of the ball and boosted Cam's catching-- 30 years ago, he would have been a reciever (don't mean to be negative, that's kind of how it was in 1986. African-American QBs were given very little chance.) Cam would have dominated the game that way as a reciever. Im pretty sure Bo could have thrown a football the length of the field. He was recorded throwing fastballs in high school in the 100s. I've seen him make olympic like throws from ballpark fences to home plate. I gave him 99 throwing power. With the way football is today, bo would have been a qb more than likely. Probably groomed at an early age. Joe namath played one year of high school football. Just think what he could have been had he done it his whole life.

Maybe it gives them more composure. I don't know. Guys like bo and hershel could play any position on the field. Even offensive line, especially during their day. These guys just stood out more than the others. Of course guys like Deion, I'd give 99 spec catch. Seems like there was a crossover. Seemed like they always had a little more push and fought harder. I'm not sure if i left it that way on the 30 year set I put together and posted. But i do remember playing around with it. Maybe this gives the players more overall awareness, being effective in all areas.

I do remember boosting Peyton Manning's Pass D Recognition, and he played differently. I may go back to that set and make these tweaks. Just an excuse to play the game. I feel like that NCAA was like the last piece of childhood. I'd count down the days for the release like a kid at Christmas. And when i got older it was more of figuring out ways to make the game better.


Last edited by tommycoa; 10-08-2016 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 10-08-2016, 02:16 AM   #22
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Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

Just more food for thought. Think about Peyton Manning. I bet he threw the football everyday of his life. He was throwing it, he was probably catching it. If he'd a blown his shoulder out and played receiver (kinda like cooper) he would have been a good third reciever on third downs at a place like ole miss or tulane. He ran a 4.7. Maybe him having 99 catch gives him a better relationship with the wrs. Or route running. Who knows with these ea games?
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Old 10-08-2016, 03:41 PM   #23
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Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

I ran some quick tests to see if there was a way to get O linemen with lower hidden OL attributes. I signed 3 FBs & 3 TEs, all with low blocking skills. I then changed them to one of three interior lineman positions (LG/C/RB).

Both groups spd=75, acc=80, agi=75. All other set to 10. Stamina=99
One group I set STR=85, PB/RB/IB=75.
Second group STR=25, PB/RB/IB=25.

I tried it on pro/AP/AM. Slow/Normal/V Fast.

Nothing worked. I did see a little better interior DL/OL interaction with the second group.

Next, I'm going to try editing kickers to see if that helps. I'm not very optimistic. Until we are giving access to these hidden attributes, I believe that Madden cannot be fixed.
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Old 10-08-2016, 04:36 PM   #24
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Re: Pass Block Slider and Hidden Ratings

There's really no fix

The slider really only increases or decreases the suctioning of pass blocking. That's why we will never see any real seperation between OL'S

Yes you can get sacks in madden but they wil never feel organic...what i mean by that is you can't really utilze the pass rush moves to their fullest or even break out of block fluidly because the Pass block strength and foot ratings are too high.

For example if a guy was bad vs speed rushers the pass block strength rating culd be set really low and then quicker DE'S could actually use their FMV ratings better such as Swim and Spin to disengage from the blocker quicker.

The Pass block footwork rating is what determines how strong a guy is doing pass blocking...if set lower you could actually see OL get pushed backwards in madden 25 and Ncaa 14 those animations were beautiful to see once they were triggered

But without being able to modify these hidden ratings 90 percent of the OL vs DL interactions will be redundant and stale

A lot of guys don't realize that EA has specific animations for the OL within the game itself the problem is in order to unlock those specific animations we must have access to these 4 hidden ratings like we did in previous maddens.

This is very similiar to reducing the jump ratings of LB'S where you get the toned down rocket jumps.
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