RFF's M17 Sim League USER v USER Sliders

[Aestis]

So much good work is being done on these forums with slider sets between Charter, Flazko, and all the others who put a lot of time into making franchise play a much more realistic experience. A number of guys in my league use these slider sets when playing their solo CFMs. The last thing this forum needs is another set of realistic sliders for solo/offline franchises.

However, with very little exception these are developed for SOLO/OFFLINE play. Some have house rules, some do not. All good stuff. But I've found that some of these sliders don't apply as well to USER games for 32-man leagues. Not because of cheese or abuse, but rather because how a CPU plays based on different slider levels & their play-calling is completely different from how a competitive mid-to-high level user game will go.


My sliders are entirely optimized for USER v USER online sim league play.

Dating back to M15 I've been tracking our league's User v User stats against the NFL using per-play success metrics (e.g. Pts per play, Yds per rush attempt, Yds per pass attempt, Sacks & INTs per 100 dropbacks/attempts, and many more). This means league-wide hard statistics are what dictate slider adjustments, NOT the personal feel of how the commissioner's team is doing. If I'm personally having a super hard time running the ball but the league as a whole is doing fine...the run game goes untouched. Without this visibility into league-wide stats in USER games only, there is no honest & objective way to balance a 32-man league.


Goal/Philosophy:

Spoiler

The goal is similar to the goal of other sets: increasing the feel of realism in these games, allowing not only the final scores to mirror the NFL but also the per-play success. In other words, you could have 5 min quarters and wind up with a realistic NFL score, but the gameplay would be wildly offensive (no pun intended). Instead we see a lot of punts, we see lockdown defenses, we see shootouts, we see INTs for teams who like to go deep. M17 is built to achieve this end even better, I believe.

One last key note: in a USER league, there is no one perfect slider set. Each league has a different skill level. Users get better at the game over time, which can skew things more toward offense or defense. As you get further into the file, draft classes vs regressing veterans can throw the talent balance off, causing line play or CB/WR interactions in-game to skew more toward the offense or defense.

Thus our sliders are a moving target, and as such I will update sliders with adjustments as we get deeper into season 3/5/etc. to account for the changing landscape of a typical online CFM league as users improve at the game and drafted players replace aging stars.





Slider set performance vs NFL:
Data through: S3 Wk 1

GAME & SCORING

Spoiler

RUSHING

Spoiler

PASSING

Spoiler

TURNOVERS

Spoiler

KICKING

Spoiler

RFF's M17 League USER v USER Sliders

SEASON 1 SET:

Spoiler

Last update: Nov 1
(adjusted for recent tuner update which nerfed the run game)

Game Options
Difficulty: All Madden
Speed: Normal
Quarter Length: 12 min
Runoff: 18 sec
Target Goal: 115-120 snaps/gm, ~1:10 realtime length
Injury: 42
Fatigue: 57
SPD Disparity: 60

User Sliders
QB Acc: 31
Pass Blk: 53
WR Catch: 50
Run Blk: 63
Fumble: 78

Pass D React: 55
INT: 33
Pass Cov: 65
Tackle: 46

FG Power: 45
FG Acc: 100
Punt Power: 55
Punt Acc: 49
Kickoff Power: 51

Penalties
Offsides: 60
False Start: 60
Off Holding: 69
Def Holding: 85
Facemask: 51
Def Pass Int: 75
Off Pass Int: 50
Illegal Blk: 50
Roughing: 50

SEASON 3 SET:

Spoiler

Last update: Dec 19
(adjusted for two classes worth of drafted players replacing aging/regressing starters)

Game Options
Difficulty: All Madden
Speed: Normal
Quarter Length: 12 min
Runoff: 18 sec
Target Goal: 115-120 snaps/gm, ~1:10 realtime length
Injury: 42
Fatigue: 59
SPD Disparity: 60

User Sliders
QB Acc: 23
Pass Blk: 54
WR Catch: 52
Run Blk: 64
Fumble: 80

Pass D React: 53
INT: 33
Pass Cov: 75
Tackle: 46

FG Power: 45
FG Acc: 100
Punt Power: 55
Punt Acc: 49
Kickoff Power: 51

Penalties
Offsides: 60
False Start: 60
Off Holding: 69
Def Holding: 85
Facemask: 51
Def Pass Int: 75
Off Pass Int: 50
Illegal Blk: 50
Roughing: 50

SEASON 5 SET:

Spoiler

Last update: Feb 24
(adjusted for 4 classes worth of drafted players replacing aging/regressing starters + increased user skill after months of practice)

Game Options
Difficulty: All Madden
Speed: Normal
Quarter Length: 12 min
Runoff: 18 sec
Target Goal: 115-120 snaps/gm, ~1:10 realtime length
Injury: 40 (35 while advancing/simming)
Fatigue: 60
SPD Disparity: 70

User Sliders
QB Acc: 25
Pass Blk: 65
WR Catch: 54
Run Blk: 69
Fumble: 79

Pass D React: 49
INT: 33
Pass Cov: 75
Tackle: 49

FG Power: 45
FG Acc: 100
Punt Power: 55
Punt Acc: 49
Kickoff Power: 51

Penalties
Offsides: 60
False Start: 60
Off Holding: 69
Def Holding: 85
Facemask: 51
Def Pass Int: 75
Off Pass Int: 50
Illegal Blk: 49
Roughing: 50

SEASON 7 SET:
Last update: May 9
(adjusted for 6 classes worth of drafted players replacing aging/regressing starters + increased user skill after months of practice)

Game Options
Difficulty: All Madden
Speed: Normal
Quarter Length: 12 min
Runoff: 18 sec
Target Goal: 115-120 snaps/gm, ~1:10 realtime length
Injury: 40 (35 while advancing/simming)
Fatigue: 60
SPD Disparity: 80

User Sliders
QB Acc: 31
Pass Blk: 85
WR Catch: 56
Run Blk: 67
Fumble: 79

Pass D React: 47
INT: 33
Pass Cov: 65
Tackle: 50

FG Power: 45
FG Acc: 100
Punt Power: 55
Punt Acc: 49
Kickoff Power: 51

Penalties
Offsides: 60
False Start: 60
Off Holding: 69
Def Holding: 85
Facemask: 51
Def Pass Int: 75
Off Pass Int: 50
Illegal Blk: 49
Roughing: 50


XP Sliders
QB: 90
HB: 100
FB: 110
WR: 120
TE: 100
OT: 180
OG: 180
C: 180
DT: 100
DE: 100
OLB: 90
MLB: 90
CB: 120
FS: 120
SS: 120
K: 100
P: 100

[mkeller25]

Quote: Originally Posted by Aestis

So much good work is being done on these forums with slider sets between Charter, Armor & Swords, and the few others who put a lot of time into making franchise play a much more realistic experience. A number of guys in my league use these slider sets when playing their solo CFMs. The last thing this forum needs is another set of realistic sliders for solo/offline franchises. However, with very little exception these are developed for SOLO/OFFLINE play. Some have house rules, some do not. All good stuff. But I've found that some of these sliders don't apply as well to USER games for 32-man leagues. Not because of cheese or abuse, but rather because how a CPU plays based on different slider levels & their play-calling is completely different from how a competitive mid-to-high level user game will go. Key elements: 1. My sliders are entirely optimized for USER v USER online sim league play. Spoiler I spent M15 & M16 tracking our league's User v User stats against the NFL using per-play success metrics (e.g. Pts per Play, Yds per Rushing Attempt, Yds per Passing Attempt, Yds per Completion, Sack & INT rate, etc.). This means league-wide hard statistics were what dictated our slider adjustments. I will be doing the same for our league in M17. Example: In other words: 2. My adjustments over the course of M17 will not be driven by feel or changing opinions but rather by hard statistics: how our league's stats are tracking vs the NFL. Spoiler The goal is similar to the goal of other sets: increasing the feel of realism in these games, allowing not only the final scores to mirror the NFL but also the per-play success. In other words, you could have 5 min quarters and wind up with a realistic NFL score, but the gameplay would be wildly offensive (no pun intended). Instead we see a lot of punts, we see lockdown defenses, we see shootouts, we see INTs for teams who like to go deep. M17 is built to achieve this end even better, I believe. One last key note: in a USER league, there is no one perfect slider set. Each league has a different skill level. Users get better at the game over time, which can skew things more toward offense or defense. As you get further into the file, draft classes vs regressing veterans can throw the talent balance off, causing line play or CB/WR interactions in-game to skew more toward the offense or defense. Thus our sliders are a moving target, and as such: 3. I will post separate slider sets for Season 1, Season 3, 5, etc. to account for the changing landscape of a typical online CFM league. Season 1 ver 0.9 Updated Sep 1 Note: we will be kicking off the regular season around ~Sep 12, so you can expect these sliders to change slightly over the first several weeks of our season as I get some real User v User data rolling in. I am still testing, so ver 1.0 will be updated just before we kickoff the reg season. Game Options Difficulty: All Madden Speed: Normal Quarter Length: 12 min Runoff: 17 sec Injury: 50 Fatigue: 54 SPD Disparity: 58 User Sliders QB Acc: 35 Pass Blk: 50 WR Catch: 50 Run Blk: 56 Fumble: 55 Pass D React: 55 INT: 45 Pass Cov: 60 Tackle: 49 FG Power: 49 FG Acc: 55 Punt Power: 50 Punt Acc: 45 Kickoff Power: 50 Penalties Offsides: 55 False Start: 53 Off Holding: 53 Def Holding: 53 Facemask: 51 Def Pass Int: 57 Off Pass Int: 50 Illegal Blk: 50 Roughing: 50 Primarily still refining for ver 1.0: SPD Disparity. Testing with another strong user suggested 60 might be a tiny bit high, but overall it felt much better. Streaking WRs were far less consistently blowing way past good, slightly slower CBs. Additionally, there appeared to be a secondary effect on Man Coverage: DBs were able to stick closer to their man; and Pursuit angles: defenders seemed to take better angles & prevent runners from getting to the sidelines with such ease. Run blocking. With SPD Disparity at/near 60 and PDRT at 55, stretch/toss/outside runs were far less imbalanced compared to inside runs, which will make run blocking far easier to balance long-term. At 53 RBK and 60 SPD Disparity vs a good user's play-calling & smarts, running felt way too tough, so am testing bumping up to 56. QB Accuracy. Always a work in progress. It "feels" good but I'll know for sure when I see how powerful our league's offenses are after a couple weeks' worth of games.

This should be getting a whole lot more love with the amount of work put in.

[Aestis]

Quote: Originally Posted by mkeller25

This should be getting a whole lot more love with the amount of work put in.

Hehe, appreciate it! This is really only applicable to online leagues and even more specifically commissioners of these leagues, so to call this a niche audience is an understatement.

[SyncereBlackout]

Bravo my man. We are getting started next week. I've decided to go default "gameplay" sliders for a season for a more reliable baseline and adjusting from there. I'll keep you posted.

[Aestis]

Quote: Originally Posted by SyncereBlackout

Bravo my man. We are getting started next week. I've decided to go default "gameplay" sliders for a season for a more reliable baseline and adjusting from there. I'll keep you posted.

Yeah, for our group even on All Madden, default speed parity means the deep vertical is open and a near-guaranteed TD anytime the DB plays at the LOS, whether pressing or not. I cannot envision a scenario where we use 50 SPD disparity online, no matter how it plays in a solo franchise with house rules.

[redsfan4life]

Curious to hear the reasoning for turning fumbles up. I have seen a ton of them in my experience with online user v user. That and I think the run game is OP at default so raising run block is a bit of a head scratcher to me. Then again I play on All-Pro. Will be tracking.

[Aestis]

Quote: Originally Posted by redsfan4life

Curious to hear the reasoning for turning fumbles up. I have seen a ton of them in my experience with online user v user. That and I think the run game is OP at default so raising run block is a bit of a head scratcher to me. Then again I play on All-Pro. Will be tracking.

It's counter-intuitive but the tooltip even says, turn FUM rating up for fewer fumbles. Think of it as a "How good are you at holding onto the ball" slider. Higher = fewer fumbles.

This was a mistake I made in M16 when trying to raise our fumbles to match NFL's fumble rate at the time... raised slider and achieved the opposite, lol.


Run blocking is probably going to be tweaked when a full league's worth of user games start rolling in, but at 60 SPD disparity getting to the edge is much tougher, which makes the run game in general much tougher. At 53 in limited "testing" we could barely run. The good news is for USER v USER games, the run game is one of the easiest things to balance. I measure league average, I compare min/max vs NFL, adjust as per necessary. This is why using league performance is better than relying on one person's experience. Maybe I & my team are awful at running? Based on two cycle's worth of experience, this is doubtful, but who knows. By week 3 we'll be cruising alongside NFL YPC.

[SyncereBlackout]

Quote: Originally Posted by Aestis

Yeah, for our group even on All Madden, default speed parity means the deep vertical is open and a near-guaranteed TD anytime the DB plays at the LOS, whether pressing or not. I cannot envision a scenario where we use 50 SPD disparity online, no matter how it plays in a solo franchise with house rules.

Agreed. Stamina, speed disp, and injuries will be the only non default sliders