RFF's M18 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders - Page 14 - Operation Sports Forums
Home

RFF's M18 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

This is a discussion on RFF's M18 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders within the Madden NFL Football Sliders forums.

Go Back   Operation Sports Forums > Football > Madden NFL Football > Madden NFL Football Sliders
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-14-2017, 10:37 AM   #105
AWFL Commish
 
Aestis's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 542
Re: RFF's M18 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cming
Auto flip defensive play call on or off?


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Not a league setting so players can do what they want in our league there. Would be tough to enforce.

Personally, my advice is to allllways keep this ON unless you reallllllly know what you're doing. I know more than most who play Madden at this point, and I keep it ON. You may gain some small advantages at times by manually flipping when the CPU would not have flipped, but kinda like card counting in Vegas by everyone except the best of the best, you probably lose a lot more than you gain.

There's enough to do pre-snap on defense that I think it'd be wiser to spend your time on other things and let the CPU handle strong/weakside rotations.
__________________
RFF / Aestis
XBL ID: AestisFF
Twitch Channel


Commissioner
After Work Football League
(M18 / XB1)
AWFL Discord Server
AWFL Daddyleagues
YouTube Channel
Aestis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 01:36 PM   #106
Rookie
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Apr 2014
Re: RFF's M18 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

With your exact settings we are seeing a huge amount of sacks in 2 weeks of data. Any suggestions? Thx

Sent from my Pixel XL using Operation Sports mobile app
Loc1225 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 02:28 PM   #107
AWFL Commish
 
Aestis's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 542
Re: RFF's M18 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loc1225
With your exact settings we are seeing a huge amount of sacks in 2 weeks of data. Any suggestions? Thx

Sent from my Pixel XL using Operation Sports mobile app

Without being able to see the games, that's tough. Our sacks calmed way down after bumping CPU PBK, but this doesn't remove pressure. Our league is used to my sliders after a couple cycles and knows to get the ball out quick. So depending on your definition of "huge," that's always going to be the first thing I look at: are guys ignoring extra blitzers and not making hot reads? I don't care what sliders you use, if 5-6 pass rushers are coming against 5 blockers, it's going to be an insta-sack unless you call for extra blockers or get the ball out to your "hot" read, for instance.

6 teams have played so far in wk 1, and we've had a grand total of 15 sacks across those 3 games. 4 of those 6 teams dropped back to pass 32-37 times, too. And at least a couple of those were user sacks.

That's about an 8-9% sack rate which would at the high end for the NFL. NFL average is around 6% with the most-sacked team(s) hitting 9-10%. Again: Madden players, even ours, simply don't get the ball out as quick and are always trying to throw it 8, 15, 20+ yds downfield. The average NFL completion travels 6 yds past LOS. Which means a lot are traveling 0-2 yds past LOS, and then you have some 10+. In my experience, it takes almost all our new members a number of games to get out of "Madden" habits.

Or maybe there's something goofy about settings that cause your gameplay to be different. A few guys around here would say that is the case.

Unfortunately, all I can do is show what we run & how it's working. But if it were me I'd try to understand generally what the biggest culprits are: blitzes getting home quickly & QBs not reacting? Not a slider issue. Guys dropping back in the pocket trying to throw 15 yds downfield too often? Kind of a slider issue but in my humble opinion a realistic one. Do a lot of your guys user DL? Not really a slider issue, usering DL is just massively overpowered and we've discussed limiting this but just haven't pulled the trigger. Or is it truly that AI pass rushers are beating your OL way too often out of vanilla ~4 man rushes? That's a slider issue, and if that's the case I don't have a great explanation of why it would be different.
__________________
RFF / Aestis
XBL ID: AestisFF
Twitch Channel


Commissioner
After Work Football League
(M18 / XB1)
AWFL Discord Server
AWFL Daddyleagues
YouTube Channel
Aestis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2017, 01:28 PM   #108
Rookie
 
MrPromax's Arena
 
OVR: 3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NYC
Re: RFF's M18 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

Great stuff by OP but I had a few questions. Im part of sim league and we are considering readjusting our sliders. Main reason passing yards/tds way down, picks way up, and sacks way up. So much so that a running back on a 3-7 team is in the mvp race.

I personally feel like the passing windows are tight backers jumping routes. Im not sure whos sliders we are using. I know your sliders are for user to user cfm but I tried them on a solo cfm and I liked a majority of what I saw. In particular medium passes having a nice arc to them. Makes throwing those 8-15 yards throws between safety and backers viable.

But what makes your user sliders different from the solo sliders you mentioned? My brain tells me that the 10 players on the field are all cpu. Am i missing something? You think human play calling is completely different from CPU?

If possible is there a way to view your gameplay? Maybe some of the users in your league? Id like to compare them to my own.

Thanks! Hope to hear more from these sliders. BTW what do your sim numbers look like from the seasons you skip?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MrPromax is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2017, 03:14 PM   #109
AWFL Commish
 
Aestis's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 542
Re: RFF's M18 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPromax
Great stuff by OP but I had a few questions. I’m part of sim league and we are considering readjusting our sliders. Main reason passing yards/tds way down, picks way up, and sacks way up. So much so that a running back on a 3-7 team is in the mvp race.

I personally feel like the passing windows are tight backers jumping routes. I’m not sure who’s sliders we are using. I know your sliders are for user to user cfm but I tried them on a solo cfm and I liked a majority of what I saw. In particular medium passes having a nice arc to them. Makes throwing those 8-15 yards throws between safety and backers viable.

But what makes your user sliders different from the solo sliders you mentioned? My brain tells me that the 10 players on the field are all cpu. Am i missing something? You think human play calling is completely different from CPU?

If possible is there a way to view your gameplay? Maybe some of the users in your league? I’d like to compare them to my own.

Thanks! Hope to hear more from these sliders. BTW what do your sim numbers look like from the seasons you skip?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for reading, lots of great questions!

1) I would characterize passing windows on our sliders to be *very* tight. Many online leagues use All Pro and see wild offensive success. We use All Madden. Fair warning, tread carefully w/ these sliders if you're looking for guys to be more wide open more often. Obviously I don't know what you're playing on now, so I can't say whether these would make offense easier or tougher. I can say that backers & safeties still jump routes... and more often than not this is how it's supposed to be. Zone defenders in the NFL are taught to break on the ball *when the QB's arm starts to go backward.* Do I think they insta-change direction & warp toward the ball a bit too quickly? Yes. But the reaction speed on AM by zone defenders is closer to the NFL than most realize or will admit. This is supposed to be the advantage of zone: eyes on the QB, quick reactions to the ball. *Most* complaints I see about too-quick reaction speed are just guys not understanding what is really open and what just sorta looks open from the in-game camera angle.

The average NFL completion travels around 6 yds past the LOS thru the air. Your brain may remember all the 8-15 yd passes, but watch this Sunday's NFL games closely. Start counting every time the QB throws it less than 5 yds past the LOS. You will be shocked at how often this happens. Madden players want to throw 8-15 yds downfield every play. It's simply not a realistic expectation, there's no other way to phrase it. If it were, NFL QBs would average 10+ yds per attempt like many Madden leagues do. But the NFL average is 7.2 yds per attempt, and the modern NFL record is 9.3. When I have looked at AP leagues, I've seen 20 starting QBs on pace to break or shatter the all-time passing efficiency record. I guarantee most would consider their passing game "realistic."

So before you read any further: is realism really what your league wants? Plenty of guys have more fun throwing it 10-15 yds downfield almost every drop-back. I'm not a moralist or the judgmental type, but you have to be honest with yourselves about what you WANT from the gameplay.


2) Generally speaking, key differences from some solo CFM sliders:
- HUM defensive play-calling & pre-snap adjustments are, quite simply, much tougher than CPU. No two ways about it. Usering can add an extra layer of unpredictability to that, as well. Leads to more confusion, more INTs, faster pass rush, etc.
- Pass blocking buffed. See above...between user DL & well-timed blitzes with pass-rushing personnel groups subbed in designed to take advantage of weak OL matchups... pass rush is generally much tougher than the vanilla CPU.
- SPD disparity = 80. One or two solo slider sets raise disparity but most do not. This is a HUGE difference in gameplay. Higher = more realistic, less separation, the game is much more a game of inches. Guys want their 96 spd WR to just "get open on streaks" regularly, but guess what...that's not how the NFL works. If it were, teams would all just draft track stars in the 1st round. For every Tarik Hill there's a bunch of Darius Heyward-Beys who don't actually know how to get open. SPD still super important, but at 80 the gap between SPD ratings is much more in line with real life. Ranta a page or so back did some really cool measurement of this effect. Higher SPD disparity among other things will mean coverage is tighter, outside runs are not quite as powerful, big WRs with great catching ratings and not elite speed become more valuable, etc.
- Catching much higher. Because coverage is tighter, you need to be able to hit WRs in tight coverage and have them make catches like their NFL counter-parts. I don't really see solo sliders raise catching, probably because guys are so open that you don't want to give the offense an even bigger boost. In our league, it's needed.
- Tackle & RBK raised. Again you rarely see sets raise tackle so much. This helps reduce some of the boom-or-bust in the run game which is so necessary against user jukes/spins. It also improves pursuit angles to prevent every 30 yd run from turning into a 50-70 yd TD. It's not a perfect fix but by raising tackle and eliminating a few of the huge runs, we can also raise RBK and increase the # of 1-4 yd runs.


3) I can definitely post a couple recent streams from our week 1 games. Most of our league streams regularly & often.

Here's a good game between DET & CHI, two solid players. Shows off a good rushing attack & a sluggish one. DET has one of the more downfield passing attacks in the league, but you see it comes at a cost (2 INTs, under 60% completions).
Score: 23-17
Snaps: 118
DET: 270 yds passing, 2 INTs, 75 yds rushing, 3.0 ypc
CHI: 210 yds passing, 1 INT, 158 yds rushing, 6.9 ypc
https://mixer.com/HEELGreenRanger?vod=11164487


And here's a close game with an exciting finish between myself & OAK. This game shows that big plays are still very possible on these sliders. 1.5 quarters of stifling defense from both teams, followed by some offensive fireworks. Very rough outing by me (2 weeks of not playing) throwing 3 INTs, but David Carr puts on a clinic. Each team gets a defensive TD, so even with the big offensive plays, we're not talking 30+ offensive points by either team.
Score: 35-32
Snaps: 121
OAK: 329 yds passing, 0 INTs, 109 yds rushing, 3.9 ypc
HOU: 327 yds passing, 3 INT, 93 yds rushing, 4.0 ypc
https://mixer.com/greenmen88?vod=11214569



PS - I think sim #s are unaffected by sliders. I am not sure. I can't give you a great answer, lol. Stats are generally in the ballpark of realistic.
__________________
RFF / Aestis
XBL ID: AestisFF
Twitch Channel


Commissioner
After Work Football League
(M18 / XB1)
AWFL Discord Server
AWFL Daddyleagues
YouTube Channel

Last edited by Aestis; 11-15-2017 at 03:17 PM.
Aestis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2017, 04:33 PM   #110
All Star
 
Trojan Man's Arena
 
OVR: 33
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Huntsville, TX
Posts: 10,645
Re: RFF's M18 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

I love your approach and this thread!

I play offline vs. the CPU, so I'm trying to glean whatever wisdom I can here to apply to my case.

I have one specific question re: PCV and Reaction at 0. My instinct would say that to have coverage be tight, you'd want these numbers higher rather than lower, but you have them at 0 and are seeing incredibly tight coverage.

Can you offer any insight as to why or how that is?

Thanks!
Trojan Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2017, 07:59 AM   #111
Just started!
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Sep 2015
Re: RFF's M18 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aestis
Thanks for reading, lots of great questions!

3) I can definitely post a couple recent streams from our week 1 games. Most of our league streams regularly & often.
That would be great. Watched your stream vs Steelers. Have a lot of questions about DBs. Want to look how elite secondaries perform
CaptPetrenko is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2017, 09:11 AM   #112
AWFL Commish
 
Aestis's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 542
Re: RFF's M18 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptPetrenko
That would be great. Watched your stream vs Steelers. Have a lot of questions about DBs. Want to look how elite secondaries perform

I would say our game definitely had more big passing plays than normal. But the pass coverage was pretty strong outside of those big plays. Look at how my 86 OVR corner with 90 MCV / 90 PRS on the offense's right side shut down 2-3 corner routes in 1on1 man coverage on 3rd & long throughout the game.

My left-side CB is a rookie and FS is a 2nd year sub-80 OVR player, and Cooper beat them a couple times. Hurns torched my 72 OVR nickel CB. I am one of the better passers in the league, and only because OAK took one too many unnecessary risks with Fuller did I hit 300+ yds.

But this starts to get into a level of over-analysis I avoid with sliders. You'll find that in other threads, where people read too much into a single game. I could post games where guys rush for barely 2 ypc and games where they rush for 7-8 ypc. When I see people in other threads write "I only averaged 2.9 ypc, so I gave RBK a bump," I nod my head in disappointment. There's lots of variance in the NFL as in Madden, that's why it's important to measure averages from a bunch of games rather than read too much into one. I do give games the eye test and watch plenty to ensure I understand context for how things are typically happening. But I don't over-analyze CB play, for instance to determine sliders. If the pass game is tracking well statistically league-wide, a big game is just that: a big game.
__________________
RFF / Aestis
XBL ID: AestisFF
Twitch Channel


Commissioner
After Work Football League
(M18 / XB1)
AWFL Discord Server
AWFL Daddyleagues
YouTube Channel

Last edited by Aestis; 11-16-2017 at 09:16 AM.
Aestis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

« Operation Sports Forums > Football > Madden NFL Football > Madden NFL Football Sliders »


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:35 AM.

Top -