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Wiz Slider Observations

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Old 09-14-2017, 03:06 PM   #33
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Re: Wiz Slider Observations

Gave some advice to a coach moder about the running game and he agrees with me that the fumble slider acts as a running back ability slider as well. Seems like it plays more realistic with higher numbers and you still see fumbles by QBs, WRs, and RBs, but not at an alarming rate. It's real random as it should be. My suggestion was 66 run block, 66 fumble. 44 and 55 are good places to start with Tackle for this setting. I'm seeing higher Tackle makes for better defensive AI and there's lots of tackle variations that dont look like the WWF. Also helps give more pass rush, but with more pass rush, it's imperative that you up qbs elusive, carry, agility,BCV(high levels for top 10) strength (qbs are really weak this year, a lot of them or in the high 50s low 60s, maybe this effects their confidence?) so they can get rid of the ball. Like Capa mentioned, I lower QB ACCUARcy -5, -10, 15. 80 may be as low as you want to go with Throw on the Run with starters. Also I agree with capa, 66 or 57 seems to be the sweet spot on QB ACC slider. Ive tested it 95 and seen great results with realistic completetion percentages. It's trying to find the Balance in the Force thats tripping me up.

Last edited by tommycoa; 09-14-2017 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:36 PM   #34
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Re: Wiz Slider Observations

On All Pro level, I've long been of the opinion that the QBA slider has waaaaaay more to do with AWR than ACC...

When you lower it, the CPU doesn't really become less "accurate", but they do get stupid!

As ggsimmons points out, they appear to be less accurate at lower values on rollouts and plays that have "more moving parts" than ones that just require them to step up in the pocket...

They end up throwing at less ideal points in the route, often with inferior foot planting, resulting in "inaccuracy"...partly (or more than partly) engendered by low AWR...

They're just not "smart enough" to pull ALL that off at lower values...

You can also add "scrambling" (or lack thereof) to that "Low AWR" consequence...

My theory is that this year, the call from the community for "more inaccurate passes", led the development team to try and make that happen by making "40 the new 50" (or thereabouts) in an effort to deliver, using the ACC slider "behind the slider"...

Instead, they just ended up with overly accurate, but really dumb QB's manning the CPU "attack"...

"Accuracy" in this title is a combination of hard code modified by attributes, THEN mitigated for the most part, by pressure and coverage...

So lowering the value "behind" the slider for M18 didn't address that desire for inaccuracy and instead just lead to the QB sticking to the scripted play, often to its detriment...

The default (or lower than default) CPU QB is currently just not "smart enough" to checkdown or tuck and run or buy time in the pocket, etc...

It "works" similarly to the way that tommycoa pointed out re: the "Fumble Slider"...

Not only is the current FUM slider primarily the old RBA (Running Back Ability) slider, but that "ability" is primarily AWR driven...

By all accounts, this year the CPU is taking sacks in the pass game and failing to hit the proper hole in the run game, because this year's "50" for QBA and FUM aren't "50" at all...

Simply bumping BOTH those QBA and FUM sliders to 55 for the CPU and building around those values seems to be worth an extended look, IMHO...

The QB's won't be any more accurate, the HBs may have their trucking boosted a little TOO much, but BOTH won't be nearly as brain dead...

In conclusion:

The community spoke, the devs did their best to accommodate and "unintended consequence" has led to one "Low AWR" CPU...


Last edited by KingV2k3; 09-14-2017 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 09-14-2017, 07:18 PM   #35
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Re: Wiz Slider Observations

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingV2k3
On All Pro level, I've long been of the opinion that the QBA slider has waaaaaay more to do with AWR than ACC...

When you lower it, the CPU doesn't really become less "accurate", but they do get stupid!

As ggsimmons points out, they appear to be less accurate at lower values on rollouts and plays that have "more moving parts" than ones that just require them to step up in the pocket...

They end up throwing at less ideal points in the route, often with inferior foot planting, resulting in "inaccuracy"...partly (or more than partly) engendered by low AWR...

They're just not "smart enough" to pull ALL that off at lower values...

You can also add "scrambling" (or lack thereof) to that "Low AWR" consequence...

My theory is that this year, the call from the community for "more inaccurate passes", led the development team to try and make that happen by making "40 the new 50" (or thereabouts) in an effort to deliver, using the ACC slider "behind the slider"...

Instead, they just ended up with overly accurate, but really dumb QB's manning the CPU "attack"...

"Accuracy" in this title is a combination of hard code modified by attributes, THEN mitigated for the most part, by pressure and coverage...

So lowering the value "behind" the slider for M18 didn't address that desire for inaccuracy and instead just lead to the QB sticking to the scripted play, often to its detriment...

The default (or lower than default) CPU QB is currently just not "smart enough" to checkdown or tuck and run or buy time in the pocket, etc...

It "works" similarly to the way that tommycoa pointed out re: the "Fumble Slider"...

Not only is the current FUM slider primarily the old RBA (Running Back Ability) slider, but that "ability" is primarily AWR driven...

By all accounts, this year the CPU is taking sacks in the pass game and failing to hit the proper hole in the run game, because this year's "50" for QBA and FUM aren't "50" at all...

Simply bumping BOTH those QBA and FUM sliders to 55 for the CPU and building around those values seems to be worth an extended look, IMHO...

The QB's won't be any more accurate, the HBs may have their trucking boosted a little TOO much, but BOTH won't be nearly as brain dead...

In conclusion:

The community spoke, the devs did their best to accommodate and "unintended consequence" has led to one "Low AWR" CPU...

RBs seems to using whatever moves are they're strengths with Fumble geared up. You'll see WRs put juke moves on CBS, spin moves by speed backs, and so on.
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Old 09-14-2017, 08:30 PM   #36
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Re: Wiz Slider Observations

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommycoa
RBs seems to using whatever moves are they're strengths with Fumble geared up. You'll see WRs put juke moves on CBS, spin moves by speed backs, and so on.
Yup, there's a bump to AWR as well as the attributes specific to the position and animation...

Just like the old RBA slider used to...

I'm just saying AWR is the modifier that makes OVR go up and down the most quickly and often (but not always) is the "prism" that the position specific and animation based attributes, flow through...

AWR influences BCV, etc...

Last edited by KingV2k3; 09-14-2017 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:37 PM   #37
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Re: Wiz Slider Observations

Bumping QBA up doesn't affect the statue QB look. They just don't go through their progression at all. Sack. Not sure what else can be looked at. Have looked at thresh, penalties, PBL, WRC.
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:03 PM   #38
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Re: Wiz Slider Observations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt10
Bumping QBA up doesn't affect the statue QB look. They just don't go through their progression at all. Sack. Not sure what else can be looked at. Have looked at thresh, penalties, PBL, WRC.
Yup, bumping QB ACC up makes 'em smarter, but this statue glitch is another entity...

It's like the rest of the engine gets locked up or out or...something...

Did you try RTP at 50 / 51 or 55 / 51?

That got 'em moving in the past...

Lastly:

All Subs at 70 / 90 might unlock some stuck animations...

Last edited by KingV2k3; 09-14-2017 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:29 PM   #39
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Re: Wiz Slider Observations

What about pass reaction / pass coverage and INT?
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Old 09-15-2017, 01:18 AM   #40
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Re: Wiz Slider Observations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt10
Bumping QBA up doesn't affect the statue QB look. They just don't go through their progression at all. Sack. Not sure what else can be looked at. Have looked at thresh, penalties, PBL, WRC.


Large part of the issue is play-calling..times I see "statue QB issue" is on 4 verts play calls..CPU play-books are a mess..and to clarify by a "mess" I mean only 20 plays per each down and distance..and 80-90% of plays "starred" for 3rd and long are 4 verts/shot plays..QB CPU just can't make this throw without WR running free


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