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JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

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Old 10-08-2019, 06:00 PM   #833
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

I called it y'all, the streak is over. lost to the Vikings 27-26
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:16 AM   #834
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

Morning all. Just checking in. I'm dealing with real life stuff right now so I haven't been as communicative as usual.

But, the good news is that there is nothing here to really work on. I think the game continues to play very well with the OP (and it sounds like AM is working well for many as well).

My Dolphins franchise is in Year 4 and after a 1-3 start, we benched our starting QB (who had been abysmal). We brought in our backup (Tyree Jackson - a 68 OVR still)....and he was a breath of fresh air in a 38-35 win....our offense hadn't looked that good in ages - his blend of throw velocity (96 THP with tight spiral trait) and athleticism just really gave the offense a whole new dimension (even if he did miss a number of open throws). He's only on a 1 yr deal right now so it will be interesting to see what kind of storyline can develop. If he bombs, there is a QB in my next draft class who could very well be "the guy" for me (but I'll likely need to have the top pick to snare him).

Our next game is against the 5-0 Vikings and our starting RB has a chance for an upgrade to X-factor (200 rush/rec yards or 4 TDs), but it's against a very solid defense....it's going to be a challenge for sure. We need the win desperately and that's going to be the primary goal - I'm going to allow the stats to come organically and if he hits the goal, great....if not...he's still a fantastic player at his current SS level.

Should be fun!!
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Old 10-11-2019, 09:08 AM   #835
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

Just finished a 13-3 superbowl season with the Bengals. I lost the big game, probably because I simmed it. I'm gonna give OP a go on all madden for year four. I shouldn't have won as many games as I did, my team is garbage minus a studly recieving group. The games I lost were games I simmes when I was too tired to give any effort for a game. When I get home from work I'll give the draft recap for the rooks going into year 4

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Old 10-11-2019, 11:21 AM   #836
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshC1977
September 30, 2019 - New update

What is the goal of this thread?

First, let me tell you what the goals of this thread ARE NOT.
  • It is NOT designed to get stats 'perfect'
  • It is NOT designed to perfectly simulate the NFL
  • It is NOT designed for people to watch the game (i.e. CPU v CPU)
  • It is NOT designed for people who want their 'stik skillz' to dominate
The goals of this thread ARE:
  • To make ratings matter as much as possible
  • To allow people to connect with their franchise team by allowing their team building efforts to count ON THE FIELD
  • To make strategy matter
  • To avoid a heavily modified game that results in large amounts of Slider RNG.

What in the world is Slider "RNG"?

This is a term I coined. Now, RNG stands for "Ratings Number Generator" (referring to the game's 'dice rolls'). "Slider RNG" is where people adjust sliders to bias one outcome over another (i.e. you're using the sliders to manipulate the dice rolls). Now, that's sort of the point of sliders for most people....they try to force the game to play a certain way (and introduce loads of slider RNG to the mix).

I HATE...HATE....HATE Slider RNG. It's the cause for the most common complaint people have for sports games ("Every game feels the same!"). You skew things too heavily one way, you override a subset of player ratings to preferentially favor one outcome. This is the worst thing you can do - it not only skews that particular ratings subset, but it also changes the AI.

A classic example - person tightens coverage with sliders. Bad DBs are now too good relative to ratings and good corners are de-valued (ratings don't stand out). The bigger issue is that CPU QBs will become more hesitant to throw the ball (wouldn't you hesitate if a receiver was blanketed?). So, the CPU QBs check-down too much (too many catches by TEs - common complaint) and their completion percentages skyrocket ('Robo QB' - another common complaint).

We want variety in all outcomes, we want player ratings to be respected (good and bad). With the ratings stretch in Madden 20, this is VITAL. You can literally undo all of EA's hard work with the ratings stretch by changing sliders too much. With a wider variety in the player base, it's key that we take as much time as possible to really see just how much variety we will see....BEFORE touching anything.

Remember, the whole point of playing CFM is to see the story of our franchise unfold and our team building efforts to show up on the field. If we allow too much Slider RNG into the mix, CFM becomes a very stale experience very quickly.

The simplest way to avoid Slider RNG is to leave the gameplay sliders alone - which is the approach I've been using the last few years. Where I plan on changing things up this year is that I am planning on being more open to slider modifications if it is determined that the default slider value preferentially favors one outcome over another (i.e. a default setting is leading to Slider RNG). But....we have to have our baseline first....and that takes massive sample size to assess.

Sample Size and Madden 20

This is where I am going to lose many of you. The concept of a "good sample size" is so completely and utterly skewed it isn't funny. Mine was too....I used to say "3 or 4 games"...LMAO...I'm sorry...I was just SO wrong.

A "good sample size" is really around 3 seasons (and if M20 is the same, the gameplay improves greatly after season 1). Anything can happen in a single season...one hot streak, a few key players get on a roll...and blammo. The second year can be the total opposite. So, which is the "true" median? That's why a third season is key - it essentially is the 'deciding vote' if you will.

Now, there are two mitigating factors that will prompt me to make a change sooner.

1. There are animations that are 'off' or don't make sense.

2. A particular outcome is consistent over a small sample size of 8-10 games or so. If I am getting 10 sacks per game every game...that's a problem. But the problem is not that I got 10 sacks in a game, but rather that it is consistently happening. That means we're dealing with Slider RNG.

Because of the ratings stretch, the presence of X-factors, and so on...I am taking a very 'long burn' approach this year. With these things in place, we should be seeing a lot more variety without touching a single gameplay slider. But, if we do need to, it will be done very methodically.

Use of Slider "Counterpoint"

You're in the kitchen prepping a meal and you've identified that you need 4 pans to complete the menu. You prep your meal and go about your merry way. A week later, you are in your kitchen about to prep the exact same meal as before. But this time, you only have three pans available. What happens?
  • It's going to take longer to make the meal - this is the primary "point"
  • Knowing it will take longer, you're going to change something about how you make the meal - this is the "counterpoint"

Sliders are the same way....you make a modification to a slider, you modify some aspect of the game (the "point"). BUT, the CPU also changes it's behavior to adjust to that change (the "counterpoint").

I've already spoken at-length about not introducing "Slider RNG" by heavily modifying gameplay sliders. And we're not going to here. Instead, I want to modify the CPU behavior (the "counterpoint") by making the smallest of gameplay slider changes. To do that, we're going to use a slider range of 49-51 for select sliders. These are subtle changes that don't have meaningful direct impacts, but can (in many cases) change the behavior of CPU-controlled players. Going back to the kitchen example, it would be like taking away your garlic press and forcing you to use a knife (it DOES change how you go about prepping things, but doesn't meaningfully change the time it takes to prep the meal).

If we push the sliders out more beyond that range, the primary effects will quickly override the counterpoint. For example, if I raise the TAK slider to 51, CPU players will attempt fewer hit stick tackles because "they know" they can tackle better. Now, if I raise the TAK slider to 53, they may still use the hit stick less, but the TAK slider will now imbalance things from an outcome perspective ("Slider RNG") and lead to more big hits.

This is the approach we will be using here in this thread - exploit the counterpoint without introducing Slider RNG.

The Sliders

If you are new to my thread, this is how we roll. Every setting I have listed here has a purpose. If you wish to give feedback, please follow EVERYTHING listed below exactly. If something is not listed, it is consider to be your choice.

Step 1: You MUST enter the following Main Menu Settings/Sliders:
Difficulty - All-Pro (note: others have reported good results on All Madden as well)
Injuries - 10
Fatigue - 50
Quarter Length - 10 Minutes
Acc Clock - Off
Min Threshold (Player Speed Parity) - 50
Ballhawk - On
Heat seeker - Off
Switch Assist - Off
Flip Play - User's Choice (I recommend "off")

All gameplay sliders and penalty sliders in the Main Menu should be set at 50!! Keep Autosubs at the default 60/80!

Step 2: In your franchise setup options (you can change this after starting a franchise as well):
Superstar abilities: ON
I know some folks don't like them, but after finally testing with them off, it's very apparent to me that something is very 'off' when you don't use them. I'm therefore adding this to the slider setup as a required setting.

Step 3: Once you start your franchise, go to your CFM sliders and hit the reset button
Step 4: MANUALLY enter the following values

User
QB Accuracy: 50
Pass Blocking: 50
WR Catching: 50
Run Blocking: 50
Fumbles: 50
Pass Defense Reaction Time: 50
Interceptions: 50
Pass Coverage: 50
Tackling: 50

CPU
QB Accuracy: 50
Pass Blocking: 50
WR Catching: 50
Run Blocking: 50
Fumbles: 50
Pass Defense Reaction Time: 50
Interceptions: 50
Pass Coverage: 50
Tackling: 50
ALL Special Teams 50

Injuries: 39
This is the most important gameplay slider in the game along with threshold. This has a direct impact on player inertia, the 'forcefields' around the players and footplanting. This affects virtually every phase of the game and needs to be well-optimized. We're set here to 1 point below the game's default value and it has greatly synced-up a lot of things. It's a whole lot of 'little things' but it adds up. The biggest improvement has been in getting the CPU QBs more in-sync with their receivers - which has made it so they will actually throw those intermediate and deep passes.

Fatigue: 50
Threshold: 50

PENALTIES
Offside: 50
False Start: 50
Offensive Holding: 50
Defensive Holding: 50
Face Mask: 50
Illegal Block In The Back: 50
Roughing Passer: 50
Defensive Pass Interference: 50
All Others: On

Step 4: Exit slider screen
Step 5: Important: DO NOT touch autosubs! They WILL mess up the game!

I just started using these sliders, I'm curious though, why only 10 minute quarters? Its always bugged me to play " shortened " games. I'm just curious what's the thought process here.....
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Old 10-11-2019, 11:39 AM   #837
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcar0725
I just started using these sliders, I'm curious though, why only 10 minute quarters? Its always bugged me to play " shortened " games. I'm just curious what's the thought process here.....
Past experience. The game just acts really wonky with the accelerated clock turned on and on higher quarter lengths. Remember, the default clock setting that the game is tuned for is like 6 min quarters. Stretching out to 15 can really skew the AI and fatigue (fatigue being a critical factor for gameplay). 9-10 mins is about as high as you can go before you start running into major problems (and frankly, I already feel like 10 mins is upsetting the balance a bit).
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Old 10-11-2019, 11:45 AM   #838
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshC1977
Past experience. The game just acts really wonky with the accelerated clock turned on and on higher quarter lengths. Remember, the default clock setting that the game is tuned for is like 6 min quarters. Stretching out to 15 can really skew the AI and fatigue (fatigue being a critical factor for gameplay). 9-10 mins is about as high as you can go before you start running into major problems (and frankly, I already feel like 10 mins is upsetting the balance a bit).
Yeah I've always felt that way about 10 mn as opposed to 9. It seems like they are trying to use less "gas" so to speak on 10.

Sounds stupid and probably is....but I feel like they play a little more freely on 9

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Old 10-11-2019, 11:46 AM   #839
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshC1977
Past experience. The game just acts really wonky with the accelerated clock turned on and on higher quarter lengths. Remember, the default clock setting that the game is tuned for is like 6 min quarters. Stretching out to 15 can really skew the AI and fatigue (fatigue being a critical factor for gameplay). 9-10 mins is about as high as you can go before you start running into major problems (and frankly, I already feel like 10 mins is upsetting the balance a bit).
Okay, good to know. I just assumed there would be less total plays per game at just 10 minute quarters which would throw off the stats for the season. But I hear what you're sayin. I've played just one game with these sliders and I liked what I saw. I'm someone who hates messing with sliders.
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Old 10-11-2019, 03:14 PM   #840
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

Quote:
Originally Posted by awffltony77
Yeah I've always felt that way about 10 mn as opposed to 9. It seems like they are trying to use less "gas" so to speak on 10.

Sounds stupid and probably is....but I feel like they play a little more freely on 9

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Yeah, that would make sense. The reason I went from 9 min to 10 min last year was because we noticed the CPU wouldn't start reverting to calling 4-verts every down when down in the 3rd quarter. That may or not be the case this year...but 10 mins barely gets us the 120 plays per game with the new run-off this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcar0725
Okay, good to know. I just assumed there would be less total plays per game at just 10 minute quarters which would throw off the stats for the season. But I hear what you're sayin. I've played just one game with these sliders and I liked what I saw. I'm someone who hates messing with sliders.
If you let the clock run down to under 5-10 seconds on every play, then yeah, you're going to begin impacting play number totals. If you snap in-line with the CPU on most downs (~20 seconds left on play clock), then you'll be good - getting close to 120 plays from the LOS.
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