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JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

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Old 08-07-2019, 07:04 AM   #193
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

Thing number one… does anyone know if You have to do a cloud franchise for the scenario engine to work this year? And more related to this thread do you think any of the mods we do in connected franchise matters if it’s a cloud franchise or an off-line franchise?

Thing number two… I have yet to see one person put out auto sub sliders. I would love to have good ones as it makes a good rotation for my defensive line and running backs.(mainly DL/DE) However I am enjoying this slider set so far. And I did read the main post fully multiple times. I would hate to finally find an auto sub slider set and have them ruin the game play I am having so far

Last edited by EvilElf; 08-07-2019 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:19 AM   #194
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilElf
Thing number one… does anyone know if You have to do a cloud franchise for the scenario engine to work this year? And more related to this thread do you think any of the mods we do in connected franchise matters if it’s a cloud franchise or an off-line franchise?

Thing number two… I have yet to see one person put out auto sub sliders. I would love to have good ones as it makes a good rotation for my defensive line and running backs.(mainly DL/DE) However I am enjoying this slider set so far. And I did read the main post fully multiple times. I would hate to finally find an auto sub slider set and have them ruin the game play I am having so far
Auto sub sliders are really icky to work with. They're tied to fatigue and fatigue has an impact on gameplay. I think many of us have decided that they aren't worth the time and effort (as they don't work well and often require a high fatigue slider on top of it....which gets really messy). You're much better off using the positional subs (specialists) and formation subs for the dline.....it's more realistic that way anyways.
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:24 AM   #195
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

Just as a quick note, I am working on some updates behind the scenes....and yes, we're breaking-out the gameplay sliders....just in a unique way.

Three areas of concern:
  • reduce 'hit stick' tackle attempts by CPU-controlled defenders
  • Eliciting defenders to stick to receivers more
  • interior pocket collapse

The solution for the first item has been found - more on that below
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:26 AM   #196
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

You're in the kitchen prepping a meal and you've identified that you need 4 pans to complete the menu. You prep your meal and go about your merry way.

A week later, you are in your kitchen about to prep the exact same meal as before. But this time, you only have three pans available. What happens?
  • It's going to take longer to make the meal - this is the primary "point"
  • Knowing it will take longer, you're going to change something about how you make the meal - this is the "counterpoint"

Sliders are the same way....you make a modification to a slider, you modify some aspect of the game (the "point"). BUT, the CPU also changes it's behavior to adjust to that change (the "counterpoint").

I've already spoken at-length in the OP about not introducing "Slider RNG" by heavily modifying gameplay sliders. And we're not going to here. Instead, I want to modify the CPU behavior (the "counterpoint") by making the smallest of gameplay slider changes. To do that, we're going to use a slider range of 49-51 for select sliders. These are subtle changes that don't have meaningful direct impacts, but can (in many cases) change the behavior of CPU-controlled players. Going back to the kitchen example, it would be like taking away your garlic press and forcing you to use a knife (it DOES change how you go about prepping things, but doesn't meaningfully change the time it takes to prep the meal).

I think we'd all agree that the CPU controlled defenders attempt "hit stick" tackles way too often. What would make you attempt fewer big hits? What if you were better at tackling? If you were better at tackling, you wouldn't need to go for big hits as much. So, let's introduce our first "counterpoint" modification.

User and CPU Tackling: 51 (in CFM sliders ONLY)

To anthropromorphize a bit, the CPU-controlled defenders (on both sides) go, "Oh, I tackle better now...I don't need to hit stick so much". And this is exactly what happens; the variety in tackle types increases a lot. There are still big hits - but they are mixed-in with a lot of other animations. It actually lead to a lot of really cool animations that I had yet to see this year. Some other folks have also tested this out and have all reported similar outcomes. (Oh and someone will ask: do NOT touch the fumble slider to compensate! It will actually make matters much worse.)

If we push the sliders out more beyond that range, the primary effects will quickly override the counterpoint. If I raise the TAK slider to 53, they may still use the hit stick less, but the TAK slider will now imbalance things from an outcome perspective ("Slider RNG") and lead to more big hits.

I'm posting this now (and will update the OP) to introduce the concept of "counterpoint" and because it is a really nifty change in of itself. I'm actively working on "counterpoint" changes to other gameplay areas right now. As I feel confident with other changes, I will post them.
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:33 AM   #197
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshC1977
You're in the kitchen prepping a meal and you've identified that you need 4 pans to complete the menu. You prep your meal and go about your merry way.

A week later, you are in your kitchen about to prep the exact same meal as before. But this time, you only have three pans available. What happens?
  • It's going to take longer to make the meal - this is the primary "point"
  • Knowing it will take longer, you're going to change something about how you make the meal - this is the "counterpoint"

Sliders are the same way....you make a modification to a slider, you modify some aspect of the game (the "point"). BUT, the CPU also changes it's behavior to adjust to that change (the "counterpoint").

I've already spoken at-length in the OP about not introducing "Slider RNG" by heavily modifying gameplay sliders. And we're not going to here. Instead, I want to modify the CPU behavior (the "counterpoint") by making the smallest of gameplay slider changes. To do that, we're going to use a slider range of 49-51 for select sliders. These are subtle changes that don't have meaningful direct impacts, but can (in many cases) change the behavior of CPU-controlled players. Going back to the kitchen example, it would be like taking away your garlic press and forcing you to use a knife (it DOES change how you go about prepping things, but doesn't meaningfully change the time it takes to prep the meal).

I think we'd all agree that the CPU controlled defenders attempt "hit stick" tackles way too often. What would make you attempt fewer big hits? What if you were better at tackling? If you were better at tackling, you wouldn't need to go for big hits as much. So, let's introduce our first "counterpoint" modification.

User and CPU Tackling: 51 (in CFM sliders ONLY)

To anthropromorphize a bit, the CPU-controlled defenders (on both sides) go, "Oh, I tackle better now...I don't need to hit stick so much". And this is exactly what happens; the variety in tackle types increases a lot. There are still big hits - but they are mixed-in with a lot of other animations. It actually lead to a lot of really cool animations that I had yet to see this year. Some other folks have also tested this out and have all reported similar outcomes. (Oh and someone will ask: do NOT touch the fumble slider to compensate! It will actually make matters much worse.)

If we push the sliders out more beyond that range, the primary effects will quickly override the counterpoint. If I raise the TAK slider to 53, they may still use the hit stick less, but the TAK slider will now imbalance things from an outcome perspective ("Slider RNG") and lead to more big hits.

I'm posting this now (and will update the OP) to introduce the concept of "counterpoint" and because it is a really nifty change in of itself. I'm actively working on "counterpoint" changes to other gameplay areas right now. As I feel confident with other changes, I will post them.
Thanks for the update. Been enjoying these "sliders" by playing all of the Week 1 games in Franchise. Some interesting results that I'll highlight later.

This may be the first time the word "anthropromorphize" has been used at OS
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:09 AM   #198
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

I did some clean-up work on the OP. I added a section on "counterpoint" and re-formatted the slider section. I added-in individual sliders now as we'll be looking to change some of them and I think, in general, it reads better.

The "thread rules" and my "Thoughts on Franchise" sections have been moved to the second post in the thread.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:30 AM   #199
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

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Old 08-07-2019, 11:41 AM   #200
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

Not only are we getting more education on Madden sliders but our vocabulary is increasing as well lol.

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