RFF's M22 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

[Aestis]

Quote: Originally Posted by teampunjabi

Aestis, What is the reasoning for having OL at 75 xp when they do not receive upgrades from the game? How does the position produce elite lineman later in the franchise? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Talk about a loaded question! Ha. Long answer to a short question incoming:

A while back I ran upwards of 50 ten-year sims (3 sims per XP slider setting), then exported the OVR distribution of every sim into Power BI for analysis. Net/net, the two major problem spots for progression this year are QB & OL.

Here is the problem with OL:

At 100% XP slider, the "average starter" tier (which makes up most starters) gets MASSIVELY inflated. Moreover, the just-below-starter level gets similarly inflated. This creates all kinds of problems. In a game where edge rush is already a major issue in User v User games, now you're making most OL better.

However, you are absolutely correct that elite linemen aren't created naturally. So you have this paradoxical problem that XP sliders alone can't fix: most OL get much better than they should be, but the best OL don't become nearly as good as they should be! Specifically drafted players don't develop nearly enough 85+ and 90+ OVR players.

The solution I use for my league:
- max the # of allowed Superstar (100) & XFactor (75) players
- turn dynamic dev regression ON
- each season we manually make one young promising Star OL into SS
- each season we manually make one young promising SS OL into XF
- by turning up the # of allowed SS/XF players, they will retain their dev for many seasons.

This doesn't throw other positions off like you'd think and can keep XP sliders lower to accommodate, since again we want Average Starter to remain fairly middling but let the elite guys truly separate. OL is the most glaring example but most positions have this happen to some degree, so turning up the SS/XF dev but lowering XP slider helps that separation. It's not *perfect* but it gets a LOT closer to ideal (file start) OVR distributions.

I don't think people really turn to this thread for XP slider advice, but truthfully over 3-10 seasons, it's tough to ignore XP sliders' impact on gameplay. Another league could use these sliders, but 4 seasons in their gameplay could look very different from ours if they don't also use our XP sliders.

My ultimate goal is to keep OVR distribution as close to file start as possible. By default, leagues will typically end up with highly inflated talent distribution several seasons in. We're halfway through season 3, and our median OVR has gone from 80 to 81, so a slight inflation in the middle. However the top is right around where it started: only two teams above 84 OVR, nobody above 88. We haven't had a team hit 90 OVR in a couple of cycles now. On default sliders, I've seen leagues in previous cycles where a third of the league's teams are 90+ OVR and almost every team is 85+, whereas for us 85 is usually a top 3 roster and the # roster is typically 86-88.

Here is our team talent distribution as of season 3:

[Woad23]

Nice work Lions owner


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[teampunjabi]

Quote: Originally Posted by Aestis

Talk about a loaded question! Ha. Long answer to a short question incoming: A while back I ran upwards of 50 ten-year sims (3 sims per XP slider setting), then exported the OVR distribution of every sim into Power BI for analysis. Net/net, the two major problem spots for progression this year are QB & OL. Here is the problem with OL: At 100% XP slider, the "average starter" tier (which makes up most starters) gets MASSIVELY inflated. Moreover, the just-below-starter level gets similarly inflated. This creates all kinds of problems. In a game where edge rush is already a major issue in User v User games, now you're making most OL better. However, you are absolutely correct that elite linemen aren't created naturally. So you have this paradoxical problem that XP sliders alone can't fix: most OL get much better than they should be, but the best OL don't become nearly as good as they should be! Specifically drafted players don't develop nearly enough 85+ and 90+ OVR players. The solution I use for my league: - max the # of allowed Superstar (100) & XFactor (75) players - turn dynamic dev regression ON - each season we manually make one young promising Star OL into SS - each season we manually make one young promising SS OL into XF - by turning up the # of allowed SS/XF players, they will retain their dev for many seasons. This doesn't throw other positions off like you'd think and can keep XP sliders lower to accommodate, since again we want Average Starter to remain fairly middling but let the elite guys truly separate. OL is the most glaring example but most positions have this happen to some degree, so turning up the SS/XF dev but lowering XP slider helps that separation. It's not *perfect* but it gets a LOT closer to ideal (file start) OVR distributions. I don't think people really turn to this thread for XP slider advice, but truthfully over 3-10 seasons, it's tough to ignore XP sliders' impact on gameplay. Another league could use these sliders, but 4 seasons in their gameplay could look very different from ours if they don't also use our XP sliders. My ultimate goal is to keep OVR distribution as close to file start as possible. By default, leagues will typically end up with highly inflated talent distribution several seasons in. We're halfway through season 3, and our median OVR has gone from 80 to 81, so a slight inflation in the middle. However the top is right around where it started: only two teams above 84 OVR, nobody above 88. We haven't had a team hit 90 OVR in a couple of cycles now. On default sliders, I've seen leagues in previous cycles where a third of the league's teams are 90+ OVR and almost every team is 85+, whereas for us 85 is usually a top 3 roster and the # roster is typically 86-88. Here is our team talent distribution as of season 3:

I really appreciate the detailed response. So to clarify you pump up the SS and XF limit to the max?


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[teampunjabi]

Quote: Originally Posted by teampunjabi

I really appreciate the detailed response. So to clarify you pump up the SS and XF limit to the max? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And you manually make 2 total dev upgrades (one to SS, one to XF) per season to OL?


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[Aestis]

Quote: Originally Posted by teampunjabi

And you manually make 2 total dev upgrades (one to SS, one to XF) per season to OL? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yessir!

The goal is to take already promising OL and make them even better so whatever system you use, you don't want to be promoting 25 yo 69 ovr guys.

What we do is take eligible OL and let everyone !roll in Discord, RNG gods decide.

Eligibility criteria for who gets a roll:

Star --> SS
<= 24 yo
74+ OVR OT or 75+ OVR G/C, <90 OVR
no rookies

SS --> XF
<= 25 yo
75+ OVR OT or 76+ OVR G/C, <90 OVR
no rookies


Again it's not important how you choose, just make sure you're giving dev to OL who are already on their way to becoming studs. This isn't a "balancing" adjustment. By definition you're kinda trying to make the rich richer.

[Aestis]

Update through 6 weeks of season 3, which is 174 user games worth of data.

The promising week 1 data has continued! While it's still Madden and passing is still better than it should be, this is the closest to 'balance' our league metrics have looked since... honestly since about Madden 20 sometime. It's still NOT balanced, but it's closer since the last couple patches that buffed some coverages & improved the pass rush a bit.

Sack Rate has hovered mostly between 6%-8% this season, vs 5%-6% throughout season 1.

This uptick in pressure is happening despite Air yds per Completion dropping slightly, mostly been in the 8.3 - 8.7 yds past LOS range (season 1 this hovered almost entirely between 8.8 - 9.4, so about a 7% drop).

In other words, we're taking about 13% more sacks despite throwing it about 7% shorter downfield. Downfield passing is still far easier than in the NFL--the net value of a dropback in AWFL is much higher than NFL. So gameplay balance is still not great. But it IS better, and almost certainly better than it's been at any prior point across M21-M22.









Another promising sign that offense has come back down to earth: 3rd Down Conversion. Our league median 3D% in season 1 was a whopping 47.6%... NFL target is 40.9%. That is WAY too high.

This season through 5 weeks, median team is converting 43.9%... still high, and yes 3 points higher than NFL does matter, but that's nearly 4 full points lower than S1. Good sign.

[teampunjabi]

Quote: Originally Posted by Aestis

Update through 6 weeks of season 3, which is 174 user games worth of data. The promising week 1 data has continued! While it's still Madden and passing is still better than it should be, this is the closest to 'balance' our league metrics have looked since... honestly since about Madden 20 sometime. It's still NOT balanced, but it's closer since the last couple patches that buffed some coverages & improved the pass rush a bit. Sack Rate has hovered mostly between 6%-8% this season, vs 5%-6% throughout season 1. This uptick in pressure is happening despite Air yds per Completion dropping slightly, mostly been in the 8.3 - 8.7 yds past LOS range (season 1 this hovered almost entirely between 8.8 - 9.4, so about a 7% drop). In other words, we're taking about 13% more sacks despite throwing it about 7% shorter downfield. Downfield passing is still far easier than in the NFL--the net value of a dropback in AWFL is much higher than NFL. So gameplay balance is still not great. But it IS better, and almost certainly better than it's been at any prior point across M21-M22. Another promising sign that offense has come back down to earth: 3rd Down Conversion. Our league median 3D% in season 1 was a whopping 47.6%... NFL target is 40.9%. That is WAY too high. This season through 5 weeks, median team is converting 43.9%... still high, and yes 3 points higher than NFL does matter, but that's nearly 4 full points lower than S1. Good sign.

@aestis seems like rbs are getting open alot this year out of the backfield. Seeing a lot catches by the rbs this year. Any thoughts on how to taper that down? Would lowering wr catching affect too many other things?


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[Aestis]

Quote: Originally Posted by teampunjabi

@aestis seems like rbs are getting open alot this year out of the backfield. Seeing a lot catches by the rbs this year. Any thoughts on how to taper that down? Would lowering wr catching affect too many other things? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Truthfully this shouldn't be seen as a slider issue. I would not lower CTH to combat this. Despite what you may read in other threads, sliders can't change the fundamental core of the game. PDRT maxed helps a zone defense react to a checkdown but candidly some of this is broken logic and some of it is not broken at all and simply due to what defenses users tend to call (e.g. usering the match defender responsible for the RB, or calling tons of sagging C3 zone which gives up the flat to HBs by design).