RFF's M22 XP Sliders

[Aestis]

COMING SOON

In the spirit of Tdawg, these will be entirely data-driven.

I will be running a couple dozen sims at least and visualizing the results here. I have the ability to run 25-50 sims and (mostly) auto-populate the results in a BI tool in the same time he spent manually counting 2 or 3 sims. So as a result we can get a much larger dataset and really fine-tune how we're looking at the results.

The GOAL here is to keep the 10y sims as close to the File Start levels as possible. File start league talent is what dictates win/loss %s in game, etc. For example if your OL talent increases league-wide too much, pass rush becomes useless. If QB talent increases league-wide too much, passing game is out of whack. Slider sets that worked in season 1 won't work by the time you get to season 5+. That sort of thing.

More to come in the following days.

OVR TARGETS by POSITION

Spoiler

First, a look at what we're trying to accomplish. Minimum starter OVR is just one piece of the puzzle, but it's an important one.

Minimum Starter OVR Targets:
THESE ARE NOT SLIDER SETTINGS. THESE ARE WHAT WE'RE AIMING FOR IN TERMS OF STARTER TALENT LEVELS

[Aestis]

Re: RFF's M22 XP Sliders

File Start League Talent Distribution

Below is our approximate goal distribution as this is how the roster file begins. I will get more into detail where I've intentionally departed a bit from this & why.

The reason staying close to this goal is important, as mentioned in OP, is this is how gameplay is balanced. As an example, if most starting OL are between 74-80 OVR and pass rush is already questionably slow, and then a few seasons later a typical OL is 78-84 OVR.... your pass rush is going to potentially be nonexistent without you intending for that to happen.

Note the dark bars on the left represent FILE START (preseason wk 1) and the lighter bars on the right represents after a 10 year sim (preseason wk 1) on DEFAULT settings (i.e. out of the box). This is an average of a few sims, to be exact, as there is sometimes meaningful variance from sim to sim. The issues will become apparent.

Also note the dev trait distribution includes Hidden as it's from a roster file export, not from manually counting in-game. This is important, of course, because rookies would not be included otherwise.


QUARTERBACK
You can see the issues we'll need to tackle:
- Ratings across the board go way up across the 10Y sim
- The driving factor for this ratings inflation is because look at how many more Star/SS/XF players are typically created. By year 10, you've got on average 20 QBs who are SS/XF dev. That's 2/3 of league starters!



HALFBACK
- Much better than QB, but some clear rating inflation in the 80-90 range.



FULLBACK
- Much lower stakes here tbh, but you can see there's a ton more JAGs in the 70+ range, but lacking an elite guy.



TIGHT END
- Pretty close to right. 80-90 needs a tiny bump without throwing everything else out of whack, if possible.



WIDE RECEIVER
- Probably the closest yet. High-end guys aren't being created quite often enough but we also don't want to risk inflating the 80-85 range too drastically or else the average starters will be too close to the elite guys.



OFFENSIVE LINE
- This is another major problem spot, like QB. I grouped OL together to make it clearer and because this probably reflects reality better, but the issue is across the board: the average starters are getting way too good, but not nearly enough 85+ players are being created due in large part to SSs being created at half the rate of where we begin, if not lower.
- You are hopefully starting to see why for spots like OL, a simple XP slider # won't fix it by itself: either your average starters will be WAY WAY too good on a higher XP slider setting, or you will have way too few strong/elite starters. This is what we're out to solve for.



DEFENSIVE END
- Pretty close. A bit of mid-range ratings inflation to address.



DEFENSIVE TACKLE
- Similar story to DE, fairly close. 75-79 is heavily inflated but top-end looks overall pretty good.



OUTSIDE LINEBACKER
- A lot of these guys will be pass rushers, esp at the high end. Overall, not bad except for the big inflation of lower-end starters (75-79).



MIDDLE LINEBACKER
- Major mid-range inflation here due to the huge # of Star dev players created, another potential problem spot. Interesting that the high end looks rough despite SS/XF generation rate seeming pretty spot-on.



CORNERBACK
- 80+ a little low here. In the ballpark though.



SAFETY
- A bit low. Don't mind inflating 70-74 a bit as those are below starter level, but want to avoid 80-89 becoming significantly inflated. Still, the position probably needs some XP love.

[kwpit79]

Re: RFF's M22 XP Sliders

I'm grateful you're doing this. I did a quick ten year sim just to look at what the league looks like, and it actually looks pretty good at default xp sliders. I bet we'll only need minor tweaks this year.

[Steely McBeam]

Re: RFF's M22 XP Sliders

I did some comprehensive sliders for Madden 21 and this is what my final version look liked. I have not published these previously. The point of these sliders was to try and get the 16th and 32nd best player at any position at a level that reflected "average starter" and "poor starter". This was to make bad starters play like bad starters and average players average. The downside of these sliders is that for some positions particularly TE, RT and OLB you did not get any/many elite 90+ OVR players. These sliders were the product of three 10 year sim efforts to 2049 in addition to taking a franchise from 2020 to 2049 three times.


I think it may be possible to address the number of elite players by upping the number of X-factor, Superstar and Star players from the default but did not ever explore this as my sliders were already functioning well enough for me before it became an option.



I love Madden and across Madden 18, 19, 20 and 21 I have probably taking the Steelers from year 1 to year 30 fifteen times. And I can say this with absolute certainty that thus far there are no set and forget XP Sliders that ultimately do not alter the minimum or a maximum OVR rating in a way that doesn't break the gameplay sliders if you have the balance set for difficult play at year 1 at All-Pro level.


For me the typical breakage comes with O-line ratings. For example for the Madden 22 release the RT position:
OVR 85+ 7 players
OVR 80-84 3 players
OVR 75-79 8 players
OVR 70-74 10 players
OVR 68-69 4 players



The best RT is 89, the 16th tackle is 76 and the 32nd is rated 68. Previously it has not been possible to set sliders that as the initial rosters age and new players emerge to elevate new players to the 85+ range without raising the worst starters to the mid 70s and then suddenly what should be "bad starters" play like solid mid-level players.



I am planning to do set-up the same style XP sliders for this Madden but it takes time.
Step 1 Is get my game play sliders working reasonably.
Step 2 For each position assume what rating an average starter should be and what the worst starter should be.

Step 3 Do the 10 year sims to the end and play with the XP sliders to get the 16th and 32nd players* close to the level I want.
Step 4 Play through manually and check every 5 years to see where I am at.


* For QB, HB, FB, TE, T, G, C, DE, FS, SS, K and P each only has one starter so 16th player average and 32nd
* For MLB and DT I assume that 16 teams are 3-4 and 16 are 4-3 meaning the league has 48 starting MLBs and 48 starting DTs.
* For WR and CB as two take the field minimum in most formations the league's worst starter is ranked 64.


NOTE THE BELOW ARE MADDEN 21 SLIDERS as a an example.

<table frame="VOID" cols="6" rules="NONE" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <colgroup><col width="94"><col width="79"><col width="79"><col width="79"><col width="79"><col width="79"></colgroup> <tbody> <tr> <td width="94" height="24" align="LEFT">
</td> <td width="79" align="LEFT">Year</td> <td width="79" align="LEFT">2025</td> <td width="79" align="LEFT">2030</td> <td width="79" align="LEFT">2035</td> <td width="79" align="LEFT">2040</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="24" align="LEFT">QB</td> <td align="LEFT">95</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">100</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="24" align="LEFT">HB</td> <td align="LEFT">110</td> <td align="LEFT">125</td> <td align="LEFT">140</td> <td align="LEFT">150</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="22" align="LEFT">FB</td> <td align="LEFT">90</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="22" align="LEFT">WR</td> <td align="LEFT">90</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">95</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">100</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="24" align="LEFT">TE</td> <td align="LEFT">110</td> <td align="LEFT">115</td> <td align="LEFT">120</td> <td align="LEFT">125</td> <td align="LEFT">130</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="24" align="LEFT">T</td> <td align="LEFT">90</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="22" align="LEFT">G</td> <td align="LEFT">90</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="24" align="LEFT">C</td> <td align="LEFT">95</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">90</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="24" align="LEFT">DE</td> <td align="LEFT">95</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="22" align="LEFT">DT</td> <td align="LEFT">105</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="22" align="LEFT">MLB</td> <td align="LEFT">80</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">85</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="24" align="LEFT">OLB</td> <td align="LEFT">70</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">75</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="24" align="LEFT">CB</td> <td align="LEFT">110</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">115</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="22" align="LEFT">FS</td> <td align="LEFT">100</td> <td align="LEFT">110</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">115</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="22" align="LEFT">SS</td> <td align="LEFT">115</td> <td align="LEFT">120</td> <td align="LEFT">130</td> <td align="LEFT">137</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="24" align="LEFT">K</td> <td align="LEFT">110</td> <td align="LEFT">115</td> <td align="LEFT">130</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">135</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="22" align="LEFT">P</td> <td align="LEFT">110</td> <td align="LEFT">115</td> <td align="LEFT">130</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">135</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <style>BODY,DIV,TABLE,THEAD,TBODY,TFOOT,TR,TH,TD ,P { font-family:"Arial"; font-size:x-small }</style>

[Aestis]

Re: RFF's M22 XP Sliders

I did some comprehensive sliders for Madden 21 and this is what my final version look liked. I have not published these previously. The point of these sliders was to try and get the 16th and 32nd best player at any position at a level that reflected "average starter" and "poor starter". This was to make bad starters play like bad starters and average players average. The downside of these sliders is that for some positions particularly TE, RT and OLB you did not get any/many elite 90+ OVR players. These sliders were the product of three 10 year sim efforts to 2049 in addition to taking a franchise from 2020 to 2049 three times.


I think it may be possible to address the number of elite players by upping the number of X-factor, Superstar and Star players from the default but did not ever explore this as my sliders were already functioning well enough for me before it became an option.



I love Madden and across Madden 18, 19, 20 and 21 I have probably taking the Steelers from year 1 to year 30 fifteen times. And I can say this with absolute certainty that thus far there are no set and forget XP Sliders that ultimately do not alter the minimum or a maximum OVR rating in a way that doesn't break the gameplay sliders if you have the balance set for difficult play at year 1 at All-Pro level.


For me the typical breakage comes with O-line ratings. For example for the Madden 22 release the RT position:
OVR 85+ 7 players
OVR 80-84 3 players
OVR 75-79 8 players
OVR 70-74 10 players
OVR 68-69 4 players



The best RT is 89, the 16th tackle is 76 and the 32nd is rated 68. Previously it has not been possible to set sliders that as the initial rosters age and new players emerge to elevate new players to the 85+ range without raising the worst starters to the mid 70s and then suddenly what should be "bad starters" play like solid mid-level players.



I am planning to do set-up the same style XP sliders for this Madden but it takes time.
Step 1 Is get my game play sliders working reasonably.
Step 2 For each position assume what rating an average starter should be and what the worst starter should be.

Step 3 Do the 10 year sims to the end and play with the XP sliders to get the 16th and 32nd players* close to the level I want.
Step 4 Play through manually and check every 5 years to see where I am at.


* For QB, HB, FB, TE, T, G, C, DE, FS, SS, K and P each only has one starter so 16th player average and 32nd
* For MLB and DT I assume that 16 teams are 3-4 and 16 are 4-3 meaning the league has 48 starting MLBs and 48 starting DTs.
* For WR and CB as two take the field minimum in most formations the league's worst starter is ranked 64.


NOTE THE BELOW ARE MADDEN 21 SLIDERS as a an example.

<table frame="VOID" cols="6" rules="NONE" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <colgroup><col width="94"><col width="79"><col width="79"><col width="79"><col width="79"><col width="79"></colgroup> <tbody> <tr> <td width="94" height="24" align="LEFT">
</td> <td width="79" align="LEFT">Year</td> <td width="79" align="LEFT">2025</td> <td width="79" align="LEFT">2030</td> <td width="79" align="LEFT">2035</td> <td width="79" align="LEFT">2040</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="24" align="LEFT">QB</td> <td align="LEFT">95</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">100</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="24" align="LEFT">HB</td> <td align="LEFT">110</td> <td align="LEFT">125</td> <td align="LEFT">140</td> <td align="LEFT">150</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="22" align="LEFT">FB</td> <td align="LEFT">90</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="22" align="LEFT">WR</td> <td align="LEFT">90</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">95</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">100</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="24" align="LEFT">TE</td> <td align="LEFT">110</td> <td align="LEFT">115</td> <td align="LEFT">120</td> <td align="LEFT">125</td> <td align="LEFT">130</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="24" align="LEFT">T</td> <td align="LEFT">90</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="22" align="LEFT">G</td> <td align="LEFT">90</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="24" align="LEFT">C</td> <td align="LEFT">95</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">90</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="24" align="LEFT">DE</td> <td align="LEFT">95</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="22" align="LEFT">DT</td> <td align="LEFT">105</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="22" align="LEFT">MLB</td> <td align="LEFT">80</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">85</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="24" align="LEFT">OLB</td> <td align="LEFT">70</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">75</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="24" align="LEFT">CB</td> <td align="LEFT">110</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">115</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="22" align="LEFT">FS</td> <td align="LEFT">100</td> <td align="LEFT">110</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">115</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="22" align="LEFT">SS</td> <td align="LEFT">115</td> <td align="LEFT">120</td> <td align="LEFT">130</td> <td align="LEFT">137</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="24" align="LEFT">K</td> <td align="LEFT">110</td> <td align="LEFT">115</td> <td align="LEFT">130</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">135</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="22" align="LEFT">P</td> <td align="LEFT">110</td> <td align="LEFT">115</td> <td align="LEFT">130</td> <td align="LEFT">
</td> <td align="LEFT">135</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <style>BODY,DIV,TABLE,THEAD,TBODY,TFOOT,TR,TH,TD ,P { font-family:"Arial"; font-size:x-small }</style>

Will respond at more length when I get some time but you're absolutely right that there will be no fire & forget set of sliders to solve all XP issues. Stars/Superstars/XFs are generated at very diff rates as leagues progress vs file start and at very diff rates from one position to the next.

So for people who REALLY want league talent to progress at a rate that closely matches file start, there will be some doing. I've run a couple dozen sims already and will post some detailed visualizations of the talent distribution in the coming week or so. Testing out diff levels of XF/SS/Star to affect said distribution as XP sliders alone won't do it.

[Steely McBeam]

Re: RFF's M22 XP Sliders

While my similar sliders method tries to mimic the ratings of the original roster to preserve the gameplay sliders working as expected I would not be afraid to abandon them if you think average and poor starters ratings are too low/too high.


For example in my finalised Madden 21 ratings the 24th MLB was OVR 76 and the 48th was OVR 71 in the original roster.


If half the teams run a 3-4 then the worst 3-4 MLBs will have an OVR 71 and the was no good for pass coverage. I therefore work with the XP sliders to lift the rating for MLB so the worst starters typically had an OVR of 74.


I think doing similar things for DEs is also helpful in creating pass rush which making sure the O-line ratings stay reasonably low.


And while this is a new Madden I have seen these tendencies repeat for several interations. Don't get me started about how Madden often rightfully looks like a massive patch but paid patch and roster update.

[schnaidt1]

Re: RFF's M22 XP Sliders

Current gen or next gen?

[Aestis]

Re: RFF's M22 XP Sliders

Current gen or next gen?

I'll be entirely focused on nextgen. Not sure if there are any differences in progression/sim stats.

[Aestis]

Re: RFF's M22 XP Sliders

Updated the second post just below OP with our 'starting point' and what the 10Y sim distribution looks like on out of the box default settings.

As I mentioned up front, this won't be possible to fully "get right" with simply Xp slider settings. I will include my best fit for "fire & forget" XP sliders for those who don't want to do anything else and aren't super concerned about it.

For those looking for a BIT of effort (nothing like time-consuming widespread ratings adjustments), I'll include my recommendations.

Also worth noting that this year we have more scenario-related boosts than ever before, so I'm unclear how that affects the sim. My initial impression is these scenarios are not included in the sims, which means HUM players likely will see greater results than what you see in the CPU talent distribution.

Key settings I'm using to control as much as is possible:
- Salary Cap OFF... may sound strange but we don't want quality players sitting in FA not developing. Using this setting allows the CPU to keep all their franchise players and develop them into studs the way a HUM easily could. Thus it's a better look at overall talent distribution and how players progress/regress, even if you keep it ON for your CPU leagues.
- Dynamic Dev Regression ON... I personally advise running with this on, but personal choice of course. You can adjust your sliders off my baseline. If you run with Dynamic Dev Regression OFF (meaning, once a player earns a dev trait, they never lose it), then I'd recommend eyeballing my XP slider #s and turning them down a bit.
Coach Perk Cost - Slowest (highly recommended)


More to come over the next week or so.

[Steely McBeam]

Re: RFF's M22 XP Sliders

I am plodding through a similar task and am curious as to how you get the OVR player ratings. With morale and co-ordinators at week 1 of the season a significant number of players will have +1 and +2 bumps to their base OVR.


O-line is again the most busted of everything and is exactly why I go through this process. After going throuhg several seasons, a 5 year and 10 year SIM I can clearly see that 80% XP is still much too high for me.

[Jogibaer1982]

Re: RFF's M22 XP Sliders

Great work so far and I appreciate your effort for the community! Can't wait to have the results for a great experience in my franchises. But one thing: you have written Defensive End twice i guess the second group are the DT's

[Aestis]

Re: RFF's M22 XP Sliders

Great work so far and I appreciate your effort for the community! Can't wait to have the results for a great experience in my franchises. But one thing: you have written Defensive End twice i guess the second group are the DT's

Fixed, thanks!

[Aestis]

Re: RFF's M22 XP Sliders

I am plodding through a similar task and am curious as to how you get the OVR player ratings. With morale and co-ordinators at week 1 of the season a significant number of players will have +1 and +2 bumps to their base OVR.


O-line is again the most busted of everything and is exactly why I go through this process. After going throuhg several seasons, a 5 year and 10 year SIM I can clearly see that 80% XP is still much too high for me.

I export the roster file using the Madden companion tool, drop it in a folder on my PC, and hit "Refresh" in my BI tool. No plodding or manually counting. This also means my #s include hidden dev rookies.

[Steely McBeam]

Re: RFF's M22 XP Sliders

Still in progress with my run throughs but here is some reasonable assumptions from a few 10 year sims and some gameplay and it shows the same problem children.

I would not bother changing sliders by 5 points as it doesn't have a great impact and due to variance you may not notice much at all.

I have included my XP sliders that are closest to what I might eventually be happy with but these are all still in progress. Also I play all the way through to 2050 so these sliders would be for the first 10 year period only. Anecdotally seeing how my players are progressing many positions will need some changing to help future draft classes develop into proper starters as the original players age out.

These in progress XP sliders are from 3x10 year sims.

QB 75 - Not finished. Still way too high. Worst starters are rated 78 which is similar to mid-level players in the initial roster. This is no good. I expect this may get below 50.

HB 95 - Reasonably happy with. Similar to the original roster but with a lot more players in the 78-83 range giving most teams a solid starter.

FB 100 - In year 5 the 16th FB OVR is 72 while in the original roster the 16th player is OVR 66. This is a product of the newer draft classes having much better players entering the league plus no real regression for existing players. Based on personal play the development speed is not out of whack with a rookie OVR 72 FB progressing a point a season for 2 seasons.

WR 80 - Reduction to make the slot receivers around the 64th a bit worse.

TE 100 - Leaving it as is. AI has a bit of a tendency to run a little often and use too many TE sets. It is therefore helpful from a game play perspective if there is a big pool of second TE in that 70-74 range so most franchises have a not too terrible second TE.

T 55 - Big drop from original. This is needed to keep the worst starters relatively low. Bad news is that morale, OC and HC bonuses provide virtually all o-line a bonus. At year 10 a significant number have a +3 to their OVR. Currently at 55% the worst starters have an OVR of 69 plus bonuses. This is exactly this same as 21 and will result in a very compressed group of players from 70-80. Not sure what to make of the bonuses and need more in-game playing to decide if having the worst players at OVR 69+3 is still to high.

G 55 - As above.

C 50 - As above.

DE 95 - XP sliders at this level result in a slight elevation of the worst players with the HC/DC bonuses increasing the gap further. This is helpful from a game play pass rush perspective but don't won't to increase the difference any more as it will impact new players entering via the draft.

DT 95 - As above.

MLB 95 - As above but increase is useful for pass coverage rather than pass rush.

OLB 100 - Similar for DE, DT and MLB but a slightly bigger increase to the floor of the worst players.

CB 105 - This is one position where the dearth of elite levels is useful. A slight lift is the slider results in lots of corners in the 78-81 range so most teams have a decent pair but getting truly good corners is hard and takes a lot of cap dollars.

FS 105 - The default spread is not too bad for both safety positions. There is a lack of elite players but the positive is there is a glut just below starter OVR giving AI teams a good chance of having OK players for game play. This is a lift for the worst starters players but is much more beneficial to the AI than myself.

SS 110 - As above

K 110 - Lack of elite players again but a bottom of 70 seems fine with new players able to enter the league via the draft.

P 110 - As above.

[Steely McBeam]

Re: RFF's M22 XP Sliders

QB position is a bit messed up but interesting at the same time.

Here is a quick profile of a 10 year sim with the QB XP Slider at 50 and respective rankings compared to the original roster (I didn't have OVR for the lowest in the original roster).



<table frame="VOID" cols="7" rules="NONE" cellspacing="0" border="0"><colgroup><col width="45"><col width="45"><col width="45"><col width="45"><col width="45"><col width="45"><col width="45"></colgroup><tbody><tr><td width="45" height="22" align="LEFT">Ranking</td><td width="45" align="LEFT">1st</td><td width="45" align="LEFT">8th</td><td width="45" align="LEFT">16th</td><td width="45" align="LEFT">32nd</td><td width="45" align="LEFT">48th</td><td width="45" align="LEFT">64th</td></tr><tr><td height="22" align="LEFT">Original</td><td align="LEFT">99</td><td align="LEFT">88</td><td align="LEFT">80</td><td align="LEFT">72</td><td align="LEFT">
</td><td align="LEFT">
</td></tr><tr><td height="22" align="LEFT">10 years</td><td align="LEFT">96</td><td align="LEFT">85</td><td align="LEFT">80</td><td align="LEFT">77</td><td align="LEFT">73</td><td align="LEFT">67</td></tr></tbody> </table> <style>BODY,DIV,TABLE,THEAD,TBODY,TFOOT,TR,TH,TD ,P { font-family:"Arial"; font-size:x-small }</style>

After 10 years progression at 50% XP mid-range BACKUPs will be playing similar to the worst starters.The spread of Dev Traits is incredible. Of the 64 players in 2031 you have:

• 8 X-Factor
• 8 Superstar
• 20 Star
• 2 Hidden
• 26 Normal players

I have run 10 year sims at QB XP 90, 80, 75 and 50. At QB XP 90 the worst starters are lifted to OVR 80. I am thinking this will be too high for me as my game play sliders won't be able to make these guys bad enough and I will be able to win too many guys with these guys myself.



Remarkably at QB XP Slider 80%, 75% and 50% the worst ranking 32 NFL starters OVR grounded out at 77, 78 and 77 respectively.


Interestingly (or surprisingly or correctly?) there was a big infusion of new talent into the NFL with the slider at 50%. Below is a profile of "drafted players" versus the original roster. Trevor Lawrence and that cohort counts as drafted players.


<table frame="VOID" cols="4" rules="NONE" cellspacing="0" border="0"><colgroup><col width="45"><col width="45"><col width="45"><col width="45"></colgroup><tbody><tr><td width="45" height="22" align="LEFT">Ranking</td><td width="45" align="LEFT">1-7</td><td width="45" align="LEFT">8-15</td><td width="45" align="LEFT">16-32</td></tr><tr><td height="22" align="LEFT">Starting</td><td align="LEFT">2</td><td align="LEFT">3</td><td align="LEFT">1</td></tr><tr><td height="22" align="LEFT">Drafted</td><td align="LEFT">5</td><td align="LEFT">5</td><td align="LEFT">16</td></tr></tbody> </table> <style>BODY,DIV,TABLE,THEAD,TBODY,TFOOT,TR,TH,TD ,P { font-family:"Arial"; font-size:x-small }</style>


Mahomes (OVR 96, 14 years), Jackson (93, 13), Murray (84, 12), Allen (84, 13), Watson (83, 14) and Mayfield (77, 13) are the initial roster players still in the top 32 QBs with the XP Sliders at 50%.



I then checked good but youngish starters to see where they were. Prescott (out of league), Burrow (11 years, OVR 75, rank 41) and Herbert (11 years, OVR 75, rank 38). It seems that the XP sliders at 50% will dramatically reduce the number of QBs rated above 85 and age out players.

Looking at the same guys after 10 years with the XP Sliders at 80%, Prescott (out of league), Burrow (11 years, OVR 83, rank 18) and Herbert (11 years, OVR 84, rank 16).

SIDENOTE - I also saw something funny in the 80% sim. Roethlisberger never retired was still a Steeler earning 850K as OVR 45, 49 year old QB. SAC 63, MAC 56, DAC 60 and TUP 65 would limit his effectiveness.


Not sure where I am headed with this. 50% is too low as players the worst OVR 78 starters aren't that bad and thins out the elite players badly.
XP 80% might be a touch high but if I had to pick a QB slider for the first 10 years right now it would be 80. 16 players better than 85 is very useful but creates a mass of players around 77-78. Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert are still mid-level starters at 80% XP which isn't at all ridiculous and based on the previous regression they probably had OVRs touching 90 before their decline.

I am going to do some more sims but for the QB position it seems important for the game play sliders to be set-up so for human play to be supremely difficult with an OVR 78 QB and for the CPU QBs in the 79 to 80 range aren't unstoppable.