M22 Speed Threshold

[Aestis]

Since this would otherwise be buried in my User v User slider thread which isn't applicable to most here, I'm re-posting some player speed testing results for the purposes of establishing a SPD threshold baseline for your games:

Spd Threshold: 50
Avg WR (90 spd, 90 acc, 90 agi): 4.80s to run 40 yds
Avg OL (65 spd, 77 acc, 62 agi): 5.87s (22.2% slower)


Benchmarked against NFL combine #s over a 10y stretch, we ideally want to see an avg OL run a 16.9% slower time than the avg WR. In other words, the gap between fast & slow players on default 50 is too high (could have told you that just from eyeballing it though).

After testing across various spots, tentatively I find 95 to be the closest to the NFL:

Spd Threshold: 95
Avg WR (90 spd, 90 acc, 90 agi): 4.70s
Avg OL (65 spd, 77 acc, 62 agi): 5.50s
17.0% gap

While the timing isn't exact science (reliant on my hand-timed self), keep in mind I timed each sprint 5-10x to make sure I was taking the midpoint of my hand times instead of something flukishly fast/slow. So I feel this is overall fairly reliable even if there could be variance by a few hundredths of a second.

For context, last year we landed around 70-75. So, 95 would be the highest setting we've ever used. A few years ago I think 85-90 ended up being a sweet spot but recently it's been closer to 70-75.

One note on the 'raw' time, namely an avg WR taking 4.7s to get 40 yds. That doesn't mean the game is too slow. We don't have exact translation from 40 time in shorts with a sprinter's release (which makes a huge diff btw, prospects train JUST on their sprint release technique which of course has nothing to do with an NFL skill), but the estimates I've found online range from a ~4.45 probably being closer to 4.65ish in game. So ballpark, a 4.7 in-game time a 90 spd WR is in the ballpark of what an NFL target might be, based on my research. Obviously the game is moving more toward MPH than 40 times, but let me know if you have read otherwise RE: the above assumptions!


I will continue to think/observe to make sure I'm not missing anything wonky that negatively impacts gameplay in a way that doesn't show in these controlled tests, but most likely this is what I'll be rocking with.

[Decent at Best]

Re: M22 Speed Threshold

Interesting find. One thing I find intriguing is the WRs 40 time was faster with the higher threshold. I'd imagine it wouldve been slower.

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[charter04]

Re: M22 Speed Threshold

Interesting find. One thing I find intriguing is the WRs 40 time was faster with the higher threshold. I'd imagine it wouldve been slower.

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The reason the player of 90 was sped up is because threshold closes the gap between the absolute fastest player and everyone else. So everyone except 99 speed gets raised closer to the 99 speed player.

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[Busforever]

Re: M22 Speed Threshold

One of the issue with this slider in previous years was that the more you rise it, the more % of catches were made by TE/RB (because WR couldn't use their speed to get enough separation). So you needed low threshold if you wanted the CPU to throw mainly to the WR.
I didn't test it much, but did anyone saw something this year about it?

[Decent at Best]

Re: M22 Speed Threshold

The reason the player of 90 was sped up is because threshold closes the gap between the absolute fastest player and everyone else. So everyone except 99 speed gets raised closer to the 99 speed player.

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Ahhhh. So I figured it would be the other way around for some reason. I figured with the higher threshold it would try to make the WRS, RBs, DBs a tad slower to fit everyone in one general population. I never knew it upped the speed instead.

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[Aestis]

Re: M22 Speed Threshold

Interesting find. One thing I find intriguing is the WRs 40 time was faster with the higher threshold. I'd imagine it wouldve been slower.

Sent from my SM-A102U using Operation Sports mobile app

This has actually been the case for years now, I agree it's a bit counter-intuitive. In addition to what Charter said, another reason is because SPD Threshold doesn't just close the gap between max speeds, but it also affects acceleration. This was something ranta found through testing a few Maddens back if he's lurking somewhere on the forums here.


What's interesting to me is that the testing shows different thresholds year to year. While the past couple years the sweet spot has been around 75 (which if you recall is when EA originally had the NFL speeds at 50 then lowered 'default' and made the new default 75... in other words, they got it RIGHT but the community hated it).

Prior to that, the sweet spot has ranged from 45-50 all the way up to 75-80. So they clearly tinker with both game speed & relative speed quite a bit year to year. I also believe, based on what I wrote above, that EA absolutely knows how to get it right when they want to. But since they generally succumb to community pressure (a community that is far more heavily H2H/Mut than simulation), I don't believe their goal with default threshold is to have it align with the NFL but rather to get as close to the NFL as possible while still letting speed junkies feel like "speed matters."


Relevant note for those who believe high threshold = speed doesn't matter anymore: despite all the pushback I've gotten from occasional folks in my 32-person league about how speed doesn't matter anymore when threshold is higher, and I've killed speed rating, etc... I've never actually seen guys stop drafting for speed, never stopped seeing fast HB/WRs still holding their place all over the top of the yardage leaderboards. So, what people claim matters to them and how they actually build their team (i.e. what actually matters to them) are often not the same.

[MizzouRah]

Re: M22 Speed Threshold

This is very interesting, thanks for sharing. I've always liked 75 but finally went default 50 last year.

I just might try 95 once I really start playing M22.

[Steely McBeam]

Re: M22 Speed Threshold

For me the Speed Threshold is sort of a big play slider. If the threshold is too low fly routes work too often and running backs that get into space disappear too easily etc.



Also in Franchise Mode the AI is much more likely to field a team that has an SPD 85 safety or slightly slow DBs that can be exploited so raising also works as a nerf for human v AI.



But all that said I still have the threshold at 50 at the moment because I am not seeing to many big plays but the second I do this is the first thing I change. Previous iterations of Madden my threshold has typically finished in the 60 to 75 range.


I remember the patch change to "75" and quite surprisingly not many people that put out sliders even seemed to notice or care.

[jfsolo]

Re: M22 Speed Threshold

Yeah, I've been a strict 75 guy since the dev team changed it up for the H2H folks, but if 95 is now the most realistic setting I will definitely switch to that. Balancing this aspect of the game correctly also is very helpful for tuning down the somewhat OP play of offense every year. Many people always say that big plays no longer happen enough with these higher thresholds, but I've never found that to be the case in my Franchises.

[Aestis]

Re: M22 Speed Threshold

Yeah, I've been a strict 75 guy since the dev team changed it up for the H2H folks, but if 95 is now the most realistic setting I will definitely switch to that. Balancing this aspect of the game correctly also is very helpful for tuning down the somewhat OP play of offense every year. Many people always say that big plays no longer happen enough with these higher thresholds, but I've never found that to be the case in my Franchises.

Yeah it most definitely is not the case, years of Madden have trained a lot of people to believe big plays happen WAY more often than they do.

Also I'm not on here saying there is no other context around speed parity and that a controlled test is the end-all, be-all, but I have personally yet to hear a compelling quantifiable reason (as opposed to just a feeling) why the 17% speed gap you find in the NFL isn't what I should be playing with in Madden.

[MizzouRah]

Re: M22 Speed Threshold

Does difficulty setting have any effect on speed threshold?

[Aestis]

Re: M22 Speed Threshold

Does difficulty setting have any effect on speed threshold?

Have not tested but I seriously doubt it.

Just speculating here but I think more likely the inverse: SPD threshold may indirectly affect difficulties in different ways. For instance, if a WR/DB stay closer on All Madden due to tighter coverage, perhaps SPD threshold gets them a bit tighter still such that WRs get the ball knocked out more frequently or DBs are close enough for animations playing the ball, etc. Perhaps (again speculation) the tighter speed difference doesn't matter as much on Pro because WRs are burning DBs by 5+ yds already regardless of speed.

But I personally doubt there is any *direct* difference between the difficulties.

[Matt10]

Re: M22 Speed Threshold

Yeah, I've been a strict 75 guy since the dev team changed it up for the H2H folks, but if 95 is now the most realistic setting I will definitely switch to that. Balancing this aspect of the game correctly also is very helpful for tuning down the somewhat OP play of offense every year. Many people always say that big plays no longer happen enough with these higher thresholds, but I've never found that to be the case in my Franchises.

I started my slider base at 75 threshold and absolutely loved it. I just couldn't get the type of separation that happens on lower values though. These findings though do peak my interest, and may actually solve some of the animation issues I've been seeing on lower values. Some of the best animations in this game have happened on a higher threshold, and I recall 75 being the best. I never went as high as 95 though.

[tc020791]

Re: M22 Speed Threshold

I found this information very interesting. I started off playing on strictly default all pro for about 20 games. After that, there were some clear issues that I wanted to try and solve. So I started tinkering with sliders, while monitoring these threads for great insight like this. After a short testing yesterday, I found that for what I’m looking, speed threshold at 85 is for me. Mainly because it really solves a lot of the coverage issues. The game plays way tighter but I’m still seeing guys with good speed and route running getting separation when appropriate. I still have a lot more testing to do though.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: M22 Speed Threshold

Very interesting stuff.

Going to try it out as well with my set.