Do you feel the player RATINGS truly captures player DIFFERENCES?

[RicoLaguna]

The reason I ask this questions is because I always felt like playing the 2k games like NBA 2K , NFL 2K and even the NHL 2K series of sports games, the one thing I thought 2K Sports absolutely nailed was the player ratings and attributes.

Whatever these ratings, categories, skills, or attributes they used truly seperated the players on the field/court/ice and made each player feel so different with real distinct and subtle skills, strenghts and weaknesses that could make the difference, could get strategically exploited, or used in such a way to really add a layer of strategic planning and scheming to the game.

In Madden, I just am not completely convinced that these player ratings truly provide enough individuality, depth, and variety to create that subtle difference between players. Sure they get the basic buckets right like speed accuracy, strength, but what about all those subtle differences that are in between that can seperate 2 players that almost behave the same in Madden?

What do you guys think?

[mrgatorade5]

Re: Do you feel the player RATINGS truly captures player DIFFERENCES?

Madden ratings really havent mattered in a long time. there are very few of them that actually have correlation.


When a DE can throw a 50 yd TD pass to another D-lineman , it proves ratings have little to no effect. When i can place a DE at RB with little to no difference than a RB , ratings dont matter...lol.

2k did get this right mostly thru-out there run mostly in sports games.

[ajra21]

Re: Do you feel the player RATINGS truly captures player DIFFERENCES?

Yes ... and no. I sometimes think we can get forgetful about how sports is played and how players are be inconsistent.


Omenihu is a LE for me. He's done very little for most of the year other than not suck when he's in the game, giving my better players a few plays off. But then blew up a DL around half a dozen times and got two sacks. Hes a 72 OVR.


I truly believe the OVR should not be a thing. I think all the attributes should exist but with no OVR. I think that OVR screws with people's minds. I think some sees an 82 OVR CB and thinks he should always be better than a 77 OVR. But when you look at their individual attributes,, they really are not far apart.


I played Championship Manager for a very long time. It was the predecessor to Football Manager. Players had attributes but no OVR. When I was looking to improve at a position, sometimes there was no guarantee I was actually getting a better player. I had to judge for myself whether the abilities of one player were likely to help me more than the guy I already had. Could I obviously see the difference between a Messi and a third division forward? of course. But the finer lines between more even looking players made it more realistic.


I know EA won't be likely to do it but getting rid of OVR would be a huge step in the right direction.

[Broncos86]

Re: Do you feel the player RATINGS truly captures player DIFFERENCES?

It's not the ratings per se, it's how the ratings are used. It doesn't matter if two player are separated by 20 points in man coverage if the end result is indistinguishable on the field.

[ajra21]

Re: Do you feel the player RATINGS truly captures player DIFFERENCES?

It's not the ratings per se, it's how the ratings are used. It doesn't matter if two player are separated by 20 points in man coverage if the end result is indistinguishable on the field.

Are they also very different in SPD, ACC, AWR, PCR?



I'm just asking.

[Playmakers]

Re: Do you feel the player RATINGS truly captures player DIFFERENCES?

Madden ratings really havent mattered in a long time. there are very few of them that actually have correlation.


When a DE can throw a 50 yd TD pass to another D-lineman , it proves ratings have little to no effect. When i can place a DE at RB with little to no difference than a RB , ratings dont matter...lol.

2k did get this right mostly thru-out there run mostly in sports games.

This here just isn't true

Now I've seen certain positions at times still be effective playing offense or defense but that's because Madden will sometimes for whatever reason assign ratings above the minimum threshold on offense or defense for that player.

For example, a Corner might have solid enough rating where he can literally get away playing WR

A LB might have enough quality ratings assigned to him in Madden where you can actually play him at FB or TE

But I've yet to see a DE have ratings that allows him to throw 50-yard bombs like a QB.

I know this because every year I have to tweak both the kickers and punters ratings just so that if they fake a kick, they have enough throw power in order for the pass to have a shot to get down the field minimum of 20 yards

I'm just as critical as the next guy when it comes to Madden ratings but come on man, I think your way out in left field with that comment about DE's

[kennylc321]

Re: Do you feel the player RATINGS truly captures player DIFFERENCES?

5-10 years ago, EA came out with the arcade, competitive, and simulation mode. The latter was "the players will play towards their ratings." I was so hyped because that was my biggest issue on the field.

However, EAs very own messages tell you ratings matter little. Ever patch release, they tell us that this and that has been tuned. If a DB has poor man skills, there is nothing to tune... that is who he is.

QB injuries... I dropped a QBs injury rating to 11 and played on all madden and let the QB take a pounding. Nope. Invincible. Until ratings control the game, we're always going to have an issue.

[Pikesburgh]

Re: Do you feel the player RATINGS truly captures player DIFFERENCES?

Yes and no. As a diehard 2001 Steelers fan, I tried making the 2001 NFL rosters pretty accurate. As it were, the Steelers were #1 in defense that year. 3rd in pts allowed if I remember correctly. 0 3rd quarter TDs allowed by the defense in 18 games. I have 5 players on defense rated 86 or above. The defense average rating (base + nickel corner) is 84.2 and the Bengals (division rival with pretty much the worst offense), has a 75.0 average rating on offense (qb,hb,fb,3wr,te,lineman).

The Bengals routinely score 16-27 points against the Steelers. The only time they're under 20 points is if Kitna throws 2+ interceptions. I am on PS4, so maybe that makes a difference, but I don't see how a team who's offense is rated 9.2 points lower than the opposing defense, can score over 20+ points every game when I have the sliders set up for old school football.

The only time the ratings seem to matter is when it's a star LB/DE pass rusher vs a 60s ovr lineman.


On top of that I still play Madden 03. The Steelers (who had high ratings) still lose games 23-3 against the Bengals and Browns every 4-5 games. It feels like ratings have never mattered.

Me and my dad used to have 10 game seasons in the good 'ole days. 4 teams each, 6 divisional cpu vs cpu and 4 human vs human for each team. The highest rated teams missed the playoffs as much as the lowest rated teams. This was 20 years ago. It really doesn't feel like it's changed. I think ratings do matter, but only individual ratings, very specific individual ratings.

[RicoLaguna]

Re: Do you feel the player RATINGS truly captures player DIFFERENCES?

Also something that I think Madden can improve upon is something actually that NFL FEVER did very well years ago......that is when players are hot and cold, indicate it somehow with an icon or a notifier.

It is very rewarding to know that your players that are performing well or cold throughout the season have some sort of carry over affect and the game actually recognizes it and reports on it

Its these little subtle things that make it exciting for us to keep playing the game when we know the game recognizes all these nuances. So it just doesnt make us think everything is just happening randomly

[mrgatorade5]

Re: Do you feel the player RATINGS truly captures player DIFFERENCES?

This here just isn't true

Now I've seen certain positions at times still be effective playing offense or defense but that's because Madden will sometimes for whatever reason assign ratings above the minimum threshold on offense or defense for that player.

For example, a Corner might have solid enough rating where he can literally get away playing WR

A LB might have enough quality ratings assigned to him in Madden where you can actually play him at FB or TE

But I've yet to see a DE have ratings that allows him to throw 50-yard bombs like a QB.

I know this because every year I have to tweak both the kickers and punters ratings just so that if they fake a kick, they have enough throw power in order for the pass to have a shot to get down the field minimum of 20 yards

I'm just as critical as the next guy when it comes to Madden ratings but come on man, I think your way out in left field with that comment about DE's

out of line?? and calling me a liar , maybe you should be a little more considerate and do some research before calling people out...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Madden/comm...on_some_other/

there you go high horse guy... have fun.

[canes21]

Re: Do you feel the player RATINGS truly captures player DIFFERENCES?

out of line?? and calling me a liar , maybe you should be a little more considerate and do some research before calling people out...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Madden/comm...on_some_other/

there you go high horse guy... have fun.

A one play glitch proves everything you said? And this TD wasn't a 50 yard bomb considering the ball was thrown from inside the 45 and caught before the 10. If we really want to think about it, I have zero doubt either player involved in the pass and catch lacks the ability to do that in real life. I guarantee you every single player in the NFL can throw a wobbly pass 35 yards down field, and every player in the NFL can catch a football with varying levels of regularity.

It's a funny glitch, but I imagine if you tried to play an entire game with those players on offense against actual defenders and not offensive linemen as CB's then it wouldn't go all that well throughout the game because the ratings do matter.

[mrgatorade5]

Re: Do you feel the player RATINGS truly captures player DIFFERENCES?

A one play glitch proves everything you said? And this TD wasn't a 50 yard bomb considering the ball was thrown from inside the 45 and caught before the 10. If we really want to think about it, I have zero doubt either player involved in the pass and catch lacks the ability to do that in real life. I guarantee you every single player in the NFL can throw a wobbly pass 35 yards down field, and every player in the NFL can catch a football with varying levels of regularity.

It's a funny glitch, but I imagine if you tried to play an entire game with those players on offense against actual defenders and not offensive linemen as CB's then it wouldn't go all that well throughout the game because the ratings do matter.

1 play..lol. im sure it works again again.. its ok to defend the game if you choose to. and the "everyone can throw a 35 yard pass or catch a ball with levels of regularity" is complete non-sense...rofl.... if thats the case everyone would be a WR and a QB coming out of college. smh.

but MUH ratings matter....

[canes21]

Re: Do you feel the player RATINGS truly captures player DIFFERENCES?

1 play..lol. im sure it works again again.. its ok to defend the game if you choose to. and the "everyone can throw a 35 yard pass or catch a ball with levels of regularity" is complete non-sense...rofl.... if thats the case everyone would be a WR and a QB coming out of college. smh.

but MUH ratings matter....

Thank you for granting me permission to "defend" the game.

I just fired up the game, switched Trevis Gipson to QB, put Quinn at WR, went into practice mode with Offense Only, so not even a defense on the other side of the field, and after 50+ pass attempts throwing against air Gipson has a 45.2 completion percentage.

If ratings didn't matter he wouldn't be missing the majority of his throws against air right now. The guy can't even complete a slant with regularity in practice mode against air with his poor throwing ratings.

[canes21]

Re: Do you feel the player RATINGS truly captures player DIFFERENCES?

Unsurprisingly, I ran a few more plays after that post and he literally missed on all 5 throws before I turned the game off.

Nu surprise here missing the two deep shots.




Can't hit the simple curl either.


Nor the out route.


And depressingly can't even hit the slant.


Don't remember the exact completion %, but it was less than 40% against air on 50-75 pass attempts. Extremely easy to test yourself and see firsthand ratings matter. Do they matter as much as you may want? That's a different debate, but it is wrong to say they don't matter at all.

[jfsolo]

Re: Do you feel the player RATINGS truly captures player DIFFERENCES?

Good stuff Canes, although I'm sure that there is a YouTube video that someone can find to refute your results, and somehow that one will be true and yours isn't.