In your honest opinion, did EA really spend 2 years developing Next Gen?

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by Earl1963

I think I'm officially done with this series.

Smart Man

Haven't been around here in some time, but I see much hasn't changed. many are frustrated with the series, and that will continue unfortunately.

I knew things were bad in 06, and I felt Madden was going to go in a downward spiral. Then Madden 12 to me showed some hope. Then I saw what the infinity engine offered. I felt things will get worst for the franchise.

It still boggles my mind how poor the animations look in Madden, and how vanilla the game feels. Its a very predictable experience, which in turn doesn't capture the sport correctly.

Most of you might not understand why I state this, but RTP is VERY BAD for a football title. We are much better off with scripted animations. Scripted animations offer a much smoother gaming experience, and as long as the scripted animations are created in a high volume. You can still get a unpredictable experience.

I looked at some videos today of Madden on the PS4, and I was bored out of my mind watching it. This made it very easy for me to pass on the game for the PS4.

Now I'm hoping Live doesn't disappoint .

[tmac747]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cutler23

If this took them 2 yrs to make what I have in my hands right now we our in big trouble!

How in the world can it take 2 yrs. to make a port?

[cherman24]

Quote: Originally Posted by tmac747

How in the world can it take 2 yrs. to make a port?

I knew it was a port within two minutes when I played a quick game and the default rosters were the pre-august ones. This game was done when the PS3/360 game was completed. It was moved over and used some better graphics...except for the cutscene with Phil Simms/Nance. They looked PS2 worthy...kind of like Terrance and Philip from South Park.


Oh, and EA. Thanks again for the second year in a row facing the Bucs sleeve ships in the wrong direction...Funny how they are correct on the RBK jerseys. And one other thing, go ahead and delete some of these 2012, 2011 jerseys that are exactly the same and put in some other throwbacks.

[Madwolf]

I think everyone really needs to play it. I wasn't incredibly impressed looking at it. I could see some things, but playing it is a different story.

I don't think the guys we're watching streaming just suck. I played it, and I'm the guy that can go a season with Aaron Rodger, Peyton Manning numbers + 75% completion easy, and I struggled with it. My first game I had like 30% completion rating and 2 INTs. The CPU was A LOT smarter. Routes still work when they should against certain coverages, but you have to throw it on time, and if you throw it up for grabs it stands a very good chance of getting picked.

[FaceMask]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

Most of you might not understand why I state this, but RTP is VERY BAD for a football title.

You might be the only other person on earth who understands this. RTP does not work well for football. Having worked with several RTP engines, I know that by nature their unpredictability can never be fully contained to a degree that will be pleasing to the eye on a consistent basis, at least not in the context of football.

Furthermore, Infinity is a highly inferior system of RTP compared to the other better developed RTP engines on the market, and all one has to do is watch or play the game to see how poorly it reacts to collisions. Has it been improved since Madden 13? Yes, but it had nowhere to go but up anyway, so that's not saying much.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

We are much better off with scripted animations. Scripted animations offer a much smoother gaming experience, and as long as the scripted animations are created in a high volume. You can still get a unpredictable experience.

Almost all of Madden's animations (like nearly all animation-driven games) are scripted besides the sporadic occasions when Infinity kicks in on a collision or during a balance cut. RTP did not eliminate mocap and that was never its intention. Almost all the animations you see in Madden are the same mocap animations they've been using for years.

It's a common misunderstanding among gamers (created mostly due to Natural Motion's highly irresponsible and dishonest "No canned animation" campaign of its pitiful BackBreaker game) that RTP means the end of motion capture animations, but this is not true at all. That's not what real-time physics engines were created to do in video games. RTP engines were introduced in gaming to enhance collision detection and produce more realistic reactions to collision in bone-constituted models.

Infinity is an RTP engine layered on top of Madden's base animation system. The problem for Madden Team is that their base animations are already some of the worst in the business, and then adding Infinity without addressing the base animation problem only created an even bigger problem.

Where Tiburon needs to apologize to everyone is:

1. Not rebuilding the animations from the ground-up. Almost none of them should've carried over to this new generation. They were simply too poor to be used for another console generation. It's simply inexcusable on their part, and that alone ensures that this game will never reach its full potential for at least another near-decade. After all, animation quality/style affects every facet of the on-field game, and the best example of that is how sometimes you'll see the A.I. move a player into a proper position but there is no animation to match with that decision so you see a bizarre slide or a "freak out" animation to compensate for it.

2. Showing footage of animations and calling it "Actual Gameplay Footage" when clearly the final game is well below that animation quality.

I like how Kotaku of all places has called Tiburon out on shenanigans several times, but the sad part is that most of the media hasn't followed suit. I'm particularly disappointed and appalled that the overwhelming majority of the sports gaming media continues to be EA/Tiburon's lapdog while these shenanigans play out. After the first completely fake CGI trailer hit, it should've been game over, but the media did nothing like they always do with Madden.

Tiburon had the dev kits long enough and they had enough time before that to plan for M25 on PS4/XB1. The fact that THIS glorified port is all they could muster with all that time is a prime example of why Tiburon should be relieved of its duties from Madden. EA should find another developer for Madden because clearly 9+ years and now this has proven that they will never get their act together. But we know EA won't dump Tiburon because too much is invested in them. It's a real shame.

If the NFL license becomes open to all again (and I hope it does), Madden will wind up like NBA Live in no time. Madden having the exclusive license has only been delaying the inevitable for this franchise.

I feel bad for those who are in a position where they have to defend this product, because their integrity is ruined

[Boilerbuzz]

Quote: Originally Posted by FaceMask

You might be the only other person on earth who understands this. RTP does not work well for football. Having worked with several RTP engines, I know that by nature their unpredictability can never be fully contained to a degree that will be pleasing to the eye on a consistent basis, at least not in the context of football. Furthermore, Infinity is a highly inferior system of RTP compared to the other better developed RTP engines on the market, and all one has to do is watch or play the game to see how poorly it reacts to collisions. Has it been improved since Madden 13? Yes, but it had nowhere to go but up anyway, so that's not saying much. Almost all of Madden's animations (like nearly all animation-driven games) are scripted besides the sporadic occasions when Infinity kicks in on a collision or during a balance cut. RTP did not eliminate mocap and that was never its intention. Almost all the animations you see in Madden are the same mocap animations they've been using for years. It's a common misunderstanding among gamers (created mostly due to Natural Motion's highly irresponsible and dishonest "No canned animation" campaign of its pitiful BackBreaker game) that RTP means the end of motion capture animations, but this is not true at all. That's not what real-time physics engines were created to do in video games. RTP engines were introduced in gaming to enhance collision detection and produce more realistic reactions to collision in bone-constituted models. Infinity is an RTP engine layered on top of Madden's base animation system. The problem for Madden Team is that their base animations are already some of the worst in the business, and then adding Infinity without addressing the base animation problem only created an even bigger problem. Where Tiburon needs to apologize to everyone is: 1. Not rebuilding the animations from the ground-up. Almost none of them should've carried over to this new generation. They were simply too poor to be used for another console generation. It's simply inexcusable on their part, and that alone ensures that this game will never reach its full potential for at least another near-decade. After all, animation quality/style affects every facet of the on-field game, and the best example of that is how sometimes you'll see the A.I. move a player into a proper position but there is no animation to match with that decision so you see a bizarre slide or a "freak out" animation to compensate for it. 2. Showing footage of animations and calling it "Actual Gameplay Footage" when clearly the final game is well below that animation quality. I like how Kotaku of all places has called Tiburon out on shenanigans several times, but the sad part is that most of the media hasn't followed suit. I'm particularly disappointed and appalled that the overwhelming majority of the sports gaming media continues to be EA/Tiburon's lapdog while these shenanigans play out. After the first completely fake CGI trailer hit, it should've been game over, but the media did nothing like they always do with Madden. Tiburon had the dev kits long enough and they had enough time before that to plan for M25 on PS4/XB1. The fact that THIS glorified port is all they could muster with all that time is a prime example of why Tiburon should be relieved of its duties from Madden. EA should find another developer for Madden because clearly 9+ years and now this has proven that they will never get their act together. But we know EA won't dump Tiburon because too much is invested in them. It's a real shame. If the NFL license becomes open to all again (and I hope it does), Madden will wind up like NBA Live in no time. Madden having the exclusive license has only been delaying the inevitable for this franchise. I feel bad for those who are in a position where they have to defend this product, because their integrity is ruined

You, sir, have encapsulated almost everything I've been saying about "RTP" ever since Backbreaker was released. Good job!

For the record, though, EAs E3 trailer was pretty clear that it was "using in game assets", but was not actual game play footage. They didn't mislead. People just didn't pay attention. But it's not like they didn't anticipate that, right? I think they counted on it. There are thousands of people that still think that was real and not pre-rendered.

[CleatsMaster]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz

For the record, though, EAs E3 trailer was pretty clear that it was "using in game assets", but was not actual game play footage. They didn't mislead. People just didn't pay attention. But it's not like they didn't anticipate that, right? I think they counted on it. There are thousands of people that still think that was real and not pre-rendered.

I think he was referring to this:

^^^ Everything about that was 100% fake. The animations, the graphics, everything. It was the Madden 06 "Next Gen" trailer bs all over again. Even though EA admitted it was fake, their marketing department knew that most people who saw that vid would never hear EA's admission of it being fake and would buy the game based solely on that fake trailer. Unlike us, most people aren't that deep into what's going on with Madden. They just buy it blindly every year.

The second trailer with RGIII and Russell Wilson may have been using in-game assets, true, but the animations were fake so that's still misleading. The final game doesn't move like that.

Anyway you look at it, Tiburon pulled a ruse. They should be ashamed of themselves.

[apollon42]

Wow that RG3 trailer is 06 all over again. Not to compare but when I first saw the NBA 2k trailer! I thought it was CGI. They knocked it out of the park.