Biggest Flaw in Madden 25 next gen from what I've seen

[dghustla]

So far...Is player movement speed. The skill players are simply way too fast. This kills what the madden team is trying to implement.

I rarely see pockets forming because the WRs can get 10 yards down field and open in a blink of an eye.

The Madden team has got to address this by Madden 15 or all of the line play changes will be for not.

Mike Wallace is fast, but he can't get 10 yards down field before Aldon Smith can get 3-4 yards in the back field.

I see a pocket wants to form, but by the time the DL and OL get into position someone is already open.


I don't know if changing game speed to slow will help because it looks like the speed ratios are off. The QB drop backs are synced with the primary WR routes which is a good thing. But this is also why you see warp speed 5 step drops also.

[El_Poopador]

Re: Biggest Flaw in Madden 25 next gen from what I've seen

ive thought the same thing for a while. it almost seems like the players are too big for the field or something and they cover too much ground in too few steps.

[bigbob]

Re: Biggest Flaw in Madden 25 next gen from what I've seen

Mike Wallace isn't getting down field 10 yards before Aldon Smith is getting into the backfield for 3-4 yards? I could find plenty of plays that would disprove that "theory". I could easily find a play that took Aldon Smith 6 seconds to get into the backfield, than I can easily find a play that takes Mike Wallace 5 second to get 35 yards down field.

It goes both ways though, but using "There is no way" something could happen just doesn't work here.

[adamgod8]

Re: Biggest Flaw in Madden 25 next gen from what I've seen

Couldnt this be fixed by simply increasing the min speed threshold slider?

[tfctillidie]

Re: Biggest Flaw in Madden 25 next gen from what I've seen

ive thought the same thing for a while. it almost seems like the players are too big for the field or something and they cover too much ground in too few steps.

I think there's a definite issue with this. You can see in CG and NG too, how players just move along the field too easily.

Just watched someone streaming DEN vs NYG, there was a drag along the 35 yard line, caught, player tackled at the legs....yet managed to stumble/fall for FOUR ADDITIONAL YARDS.

That's 12 feet! Twice his height. Players don't go down properly at all.


The proportions are broken, that leads to this problem.

http://assets1.ignimgs.com/vid/thumbnails/2013/06/12/a4a61ce80f4eed174516764c4d2d1b4f-1370996371/frame_0004.jpg

Look at that image, image AP lying flat on that field, he'd come close to covering 3 yards....making him almost NINE FEET TALL.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: Biggest Flaw in Madden 25 next gen from what I've seen

I think there's a definite issue with this. You can see in CG and NG too, how players just move along the field too easily.

Just watched someone streaming DEN vs NYG, there was a drag along the 35 yard line, caught, player tackled at the legs....yet managed to stumble/fall for FOUR ADDITIONAL YARDS.

That's 12 feet! Twice his height. Players don't go down properly at all.


The proportions are broken, that leads to this problem.

http://assets1.ignimgs.com/vid/thumbnails/2013/06/12/a4a61ce80f4eed174516764c4d2d1b4f-1370996371/frame_0004.jpg

Look at that image, image AP lying flat on that field, he'd come close to covering 3 yards....making him almost NINE FEET TALL.

This has always been an issue for the series. Player models are too big for the field, a remnant from the old hard core arcade days.

If they are at all serious about physics, momentum, realism, etc., they need to fix this.

When you watch plays develop in real NFL 11 on 11 with the subscription based coach's film, you can see how plays develop and the time it takes for them to happen. Madden looks nothing like that. I don't know if anyone at Tiburon looks at coach's film, but if they are "planting a flag on sim" as they say they are, they'd better get on it.

Long long way to go for a game and company that is rightly known for not caring about details.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Biggest Flaw in Madden 25 next gen from what I've seen

I have completely given up hope that this series will ever right itself. There is SO much that needs to be addressed. Not only that but I have close to zero confidence the developers there even have the ability to address them. The fact that you can watch all of these streams and really barely tell the difference is very telling. This game was not worked on for 2 years. This was a rushed, thrown together port that shows that entirely.

What happened to the war in the trenches? Where's the pocket? Where's the pass rush?

Everything looks exactly the same. Player movement is still terrible, RBs now do that silly looking high step when they run, the same tackles over and over. Receivers and DBs caught standing still flat footed.

2k had a goal of embarrassing EA going into this generation and they succeeded. it amazes me that this continuously happens even though EA has all of the money and resources. You can't fix talent...

[LorenzoDC]

Re: Biggest Flaw in Madden 25 next gen from what I've seen

2k had a goal of embarrassing EA going into this generation and they succeeded. it amazes me that this continuously happens even though EA has all of the money and resources. You can't fix talent...

There's a point of diminishing returns in some software development, where adding more people makes the outcome worse. More people, more committee bureaucracy, more distance between decision makers and implementers, and a watering down of what could or would be a vision for innovation because too many people have agendas of their own and have to "buy in" to any decision.

I'm guessing Mike Wang returned to 2k on the basketball side after a brief stint with EA for a reason. I'm guessing Josh Looman, who had his own positive track record for innovation before getting screwed by Tiburon's inability to execute anything well or completely, is not the reason for the sloppy execution of CCM/CFM.

I'm going to bet there are some very talented, very frustrated developers at Tiburon. It must not be fun to be them.

[SteelerSpartan]

Re: Biggest Flaw in Madden 25 next gen from what I've seen

I think they've made the players too big because of how terrible their ai and pursuit logic is.......instead of expanding/improving their ai to account for realistic spacing and timing they went the cheap and easy way out and compressed everything so that it matches up to their simplified version

[dghustla]

Re: Biggest Flaw in Madden 25 next gen from what I've seen

Mike Wallace isn't getting down field 10 yards before Aldon Smith is getting into the backfield for 3-4 yards? I could find plenty of plays that would disprove that "theory". I could easily find a play that took Aldon Smith 6 seconds to get into the backfield, than I can easily find a play that takes Mike Wallace 5 second to get 35 yards down field.

It goes both ways though, but using "There is no way" something could happen just doesn't work here.

My post did not say there is no way that could happen. Mike Wallace runs 4.3 in a str8 line. On the field he runs by ppl but he is not running str8 line track meets in the game. even if he wants to go deep. He uses a hesitation move, or has to slow down to go in and out of his breaks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35EyPalk6Do

look at these highlights.
Ball Snapped @ :25 mark Wallace is open and makes the catch at :28. running a 9 route. He is 14 yards down field. It took 3 seconds (3/4 of his 40 yards dash time to go 14 yards in a live game). Now in that same time span of 3 seconds there is a full pocket around Ben Rothisburger.

Ball Snapped @ :40 wallace runs a deep post across the field he catches the ball down field at :47. roughly 47 yards down field. Running in a straight line track setting we would all agree that there is no way it would take wallace an additional 3 seconds to cover 7 yards. But in a live game it does.

@1:33 ball is snapped it. Niners are playing soft coverage Wallace gets a free release. He catches the ball 8 yards down field in 2 seconds. If you pause at Rothlesburger releases you see a full pocket around him that formed in 2 seconds from the snap.

My point is in Madden 25 next gen in the clips i've seen. I can see a Pocket embryo. It wants to be a real pocket but before it can get to that point. someone is breaking free out 10+ yards down field.

The Madden team needs to do 2 things in my opinion.
1)Add more variance to what points guys get in open in certain routes.
2)The DL needs to get up field with a purpose and alot faster than they do currently.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: Biggest Flaw in Madden 25 next gen from what I've seen

I think they've made the players too big because of how terrible their ai and pursuit logic is.......instead of expanding/improving their ai to account for realistic spacing and timing they went the cheap and easy way out and compressed everything so that it matches up to their simplified version

Interesting theory. You may be right.

It does crowd the field more with those Sasquatch guys running around. That can mask the inability to do AI and players making plays in any kind of realistic way.

They may also do it this way because the game field does not really seem to be as wide as a real field, proportionally speaking. They want to get the whole 11x11 view in the gameplay camera, but to do it realistically, they would have to pull the camera back and the player bodies would look smaller.

The more distance you put visually between the gamer and human figures, the less compelling the game is. That's one thing NBA 2K has over football: the faces and expressions are available and you can get closer to fewer guys. NBA 2k14 has definitely exploited that gaming advantage on NG with the visuals, the facial expressions, emotions, etc.

[dghustla]

Re: Biggest Flaw in Madden 25 next gen from what I've seen

Interesting theory. You may be right.

It does crowd the field more with those Sasquatch guys running around. That can mask the inability to do AI and players making plays in any kind of realistic way.

They may also do it this way because the game field does not really seem to be as wide as a real field, proportionally speaking. They want to get the whole 11x11 view in the gameplay camera, but to do it realistically, they would have to pull the camera back and the player bodies would look smaller.

The more distance you put visually between the gamer and human figures, the less compelling the game is. That's one thing NBA 2K has over football: the faces and expressions are available and you can get closer to fewer guys. NBA 2k14 has definitely exploited that gaming advantage on NG with the visuals, the facial expressions, emotions, etc.

I don't really agree with that. Because many of the ppl I know who played NCAA loved the coordinator cam.

EA could have shown emotion by NOT using cut scenes but zooming in after plays in real time to catch player emotions. How it works in a real broadcast. AP runs for 10 yards he gets tackled. They zoom in on his face as he walks to the huddle.

What about player chatter too?

[vabeachboy19]

Re: Biggest Flaw in Madden 25 next gen from what I've seen

So far...Is player movement speed. The skill players are simply way too fast. This kills what the madden team is trying to implement.

I rarely see pockets forming because the WRs can get 10 yards down field and open in a blink of an eye.

The Madden team has got to address this by Madden 15 or all of the line play changes will be for not.

Mike Wallace is fast, but he can't get 10 yards down field before Aldon Smith can get 3-4 yards in the back field.

I see a pocket wants to form, but by the time the DL and OL get into position someone is already open.


I don't know if changing game speed to slow will help because it looks like the speed ratios are off. The QB drop backs are synced with the primary WR routes which is a good thing. But this is also why you see warp speed 5 step drops also.

200% agreed. Madden is always rushing animations. We never get the nice slow smooth "realistic " animations with madden. For example. Look at how fast and arcade the qb kneel animation and kick off return kneel animation is. It just looks awful and arcade like. They are do worried about gamers complaining about time that they speed the game up and animations suffer making the game feel cheap, rushed and extremely shallow.

Looking at the live stream they are in such a rush they cut the camera back to the play call screen so fast you can't even see the new sideline interactions when a player runs out of bounds. I am extremely disappointed with what I see. I want to play a football game that actually looks and MOVES like football. It's not too much to ask when I can pop in NFL fever 04, NFL game day 04 and NFL 2k5 and they all have smoother more realistic animations and game flow than a game made in 2013


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LorenzoDC]

Re: Biggest Flaw in Madden 25 next gen from what I've seen

I don't really agree with that. Because many of the ppl I know who played NCAA loved the coordinator cam.

EA could have shown emotion by NOT using cut scenes but zooming in after plays in real time to catch player emotions. How it works in a real broadcast. AP runs for 10 yards he gets tackled. They zoom in on his face as he walks to the huddle.

What about player chatter too?

Oh, I agree with you. I wasn't saying the game of football itself limits what EA can do with the video game. I was just, well, imagining what might be the internal excuses at Tiburon for never ever dealing with this. I'm sure there are people there who know very well, and have for a long time, that their game does not honor on field physical space and dimensions, and that their players are Sasquatches.

Real football is filled with emotion and drama. This could be replicatred "in the game." BUt it's not, and never has been. NG in theory makes this the new frontier, but M25 NG does not look as if it recognizes this.

Their explanation is the need to fix core gameplay. Well , I agree that's top priority. But this M25 NG does not look as if it moves the needle very far in that direction.

[KG]

Re: Biggest Flaw in Madden 25 next gen from what I've seen

I think there's a definite issue with this. You can see in CG and NG too, how players just move along the field too easily.

Just watched someone streaming DEN vs NYG, there was a drag along the 35 yard line, caught, player tackled at the legs....yet managed to stumble/fall for FOUR ADDITIONAL YARDS.

That's 12 feet! Twice his height. Players don't go down properly at all.


The proportions are broken, that leads to this problem.

http://assets1.ignimgs.com/vid/thumbnails/2013/06/12/a4a61ce80f4eed174516764c4d2d1b4f-1370996371/frame_0004.jpg

Look at that image, image AP lying flat on that field, he'd come close to covering 3 yards....making him almost NINE FEET TALL.

Agreed. I think they do this because they want the players to look appealing graphically. Zoomed out and you can't see the detailed graphics (assuming there are). It's why they always show zoomed in highlights for MNF and promos.