Rebuilding the Off-season

[DeuceDouglas]

A couple more random things.

Off-season Camps - Represented in some, any form. Whether it just put a simple progression stage that you can't even play. Just something. Rookie mini-camp. Team mini-camp. Training camp. You could have very slight progression, mainly for younger guys throughout those processes as well as preseason.

Off-season Injuries - This goes right along with the last. You see it happen every year. A team loses a player for the year before he even touches the field. It would just be something that would have to be represented. Whether it's a nagging injury that forces him to miss some time or a season ending achilles injury. Obviously, you'd have to also put an option in for those that didn't want to deal with this type of thing.

90-man Rosters - This should be standard. 75 is good. 90 is better not to mention accurate to real life.

Hold Outs - This is another one of those last, last gen things that hasn't returned. This could go along with the mini-camp/training camp as a guy might hold out from those and miss time because of a contract dispute. Just another thing that should be represented although likely something the NFL wouldn't allow to be.

Schedule Release/Preseason Schedule - This is just fluff but it's something that attracts a large amount of attention and wouldn't be something too bad to represent at the end of a long off-season. It could range anything from graphics showcasing each weeks schedule to just a stage where you can look at the schedule yourself.

And I'd really like to be able to schedule my own preseason like you used to be able to. It's something little but I know, for me, I'd be more willing to play those games if I got to choose who I played each year. Not to mention it would resolve the issues with playing the exact same preseason schedule every single season which, depending on your team, may or may not have division opponents on it.

[Trick13]

Quote: Originally Posted by DeuceDouglas

A couple more random things. ...

DeuceDouglas - before I drop my "take" on your post - I just want to say I am not trying to nitpick or criticize any part of them, more over I am trying to add my perspective to your ideas - hope people do the same in regard to mine - to add something you may have not thought of - in the hopes of getting some really great collaborative ideas out there...


As far as mini camps - I know a ton of people have asked for the return of PS2 style playable deal, but to me they were always heavily slanted to favor speed players - it was just the nature of the drills they had - I mean outside of K/P/QBs. And you were limited to 1 player per drill, so it is one feature I don't really miss from PS2 era.


While I would not complain about a similar feature due to the popularity of it, I would rather see something where you had so many hours for mini-camp and so many hours for training camp and you would divide the time up between different activities thus producing different results.
Conditioning
Flexibility
Strength
one on one drills
7 on 7
full team 3/4 speed
contact drills
full contact scrimmage days
classroom/film work


Each would have a minimum and a maximum and you could divide the time up within those constraints. Say I have a veteran heavy team - I likely don't want a lot of contact or full scrimmages because I want to keep them healthy. This should be connected in a significant way to coach and training staff ratings. Although, I would hope it meant more coaches to include coordinators and positional coaches.


I think this is where you should be able to "task" individual players with "adding or dropping weight" which could potentially impact their ratings in the following attributes - STA/TGH/ACC/AGI/STR/INJ - not that adding pounds would automatically add to or diminish any given rating, but let's say you ask a DT to add 10 lbs - you may see him gain only 7 and then lose 3 points in ACC, 2 in STA, 1 in AGI, but gain 4 in STR and 2 in both INJ/TGH.


I don't really want to "play" offseason camps - as much as I want them "represented" within CFM - that being said I think injury risks should be on a set of two sliders or settings. one would be frequency (never, very infrequent, infrequent, average, frequent, very frequent, constant) and max severity (1 wk, 3 wks, 6 wks, 9 wks, 12 wks,season ending, career ending). I feel that these two sliders or settings should encompass all "simmed events" including camps, preseason, regular season and post season games. I will get back to why we should have "sim" game injury settings later in the schedule section.


As far as the 90 man rosters I don't see the need under the current way that Madden operates. That being that I can see every rating accurately depicted in number form and I know what development level each player is. Now, I don't think SPD/AGI/STR/JMP/ACC/THP need to be hidden. You get a pretty clear idea of these things from college tape, combine and pro day workouts - so they can stay in number form. Just about every other rating should be a letter grade from and no more when you scout players and even after you draft them - development should be totally hidden until after a player has been in the league 3 years - then it should open up for upgrades (assuming we are going to keep the dumb as heck XP system).


Now don't be upset with me - not saying I don't want 90 man rosters - would actually like the idea if incoming rookies had only letter grades at "technique" ratings and we had an actual UDRFA period and a secondary regular free agency period after the draft and before "mini-camps" start. Then I would prefer that after camps end we see "skills improvement/decline" screen where we see after the first camp who made strides where and which veterans are beginning to decline. Then I would have some viable info to make roster choices on. I would also be in favor of keeping extended rosters later than IRL - so I can put these players on the field in preseason (as I don't want to play mini/training camps).


Holdouts - ...and player morale tied into roles system. Winning masks most ills but big time players (high OVR) should get grumpy (impacting their consistency) if they are under utilized. Let's use an example from a recent solo CFM I did as the Cowboys - I signed Julio Jones in FA to pair with Dez Bryant. Great you say, but as I am a fairly balanced play caller (maybe even favor the run a bit) it will be difficult for me to keep them both happy in terms of touches and that should be reflected within CFM. Maybe to the point where if I fail to get them both enough touches - one or both of them should gripe in the media or even demand a trade/release.
Players who are low OVR, but put up huge numbers (high PROD) should demand a new contract. Again from my last solo CFM, I brought back WR- Teddy Williams (97 spd, 99 acc but 57 OVR) and he had like 27 receptions for 9 TDs. He was on a one year deal and so when I went to resign him he asked for a 1 year deal at "league minimum" but in the real world a guy who catches 9 TDs with an obscene yards per catch number is going to be looking for a bigger contract and some bonus money... Same with speed rushers that I, and many of you I am sure, use as situational pass rush guys - no matter how low the rating they have - a 10 sack guy is going to ask to be paid - and player roles would mean if he leaves via FA the CPU teams would have an idea of how to use that player.


Scheduling - Love that you brought up "hand picked" preseason opponents. I had forgotten that.
Now, returning to why we should have some settings/sliders for "simmed events" - I prefer to play in CFMs with about 8 user teams and play essentially a "10 game schedule". meaning we "sim" 6 regular season games each year. This provides a bit of a test of your "general manager" skills (putting a team together that can win simmed games) and allows us to get in more seasons allowing people with "project teams" (Jags, Rams, Raiders) a decent shot at getting down the road where they have a chance to win against the better "out of box" teams like the Broncos, Patriots, Seahawks etc.
This does create a bit of a nightmare for the commissioner in terms of schedule - as you have to find an early span of 6 games with no HUM vs Hum games - well how cool would it be if you could "instruct the CPU" to move all HUM vs HUM games to end of the season - or the commish could "place games" on the blank schedule and then have the game fill in the rest...

[DeuceDouglas]

Quote: Originally Posted by Trick13

I don't really want to "play" offseason camps - as much as I want them "represented" within CFM...

With you 100% on this. The only thing I really want to play is my games. I would have to have a reason to play preseason games for me to ever play them again. I don't like the idea of having to 'play' practice. And I definitely don't like the idea of playing off-season camps. It's just boring. Having the option for it is fine for those that want to but you shouldn't be penalized for not wanting to play it. I definitely want them to be represented but I don't want them to be a chore kind of like practice is now.

Originally, the idea I had in my head for mini-camps/training camps was basically an allotted amount of days, OTA's (3-4 days apiece, 3 separate times), Rookie mini-camp (3 days), Team mini-camp (3 days), and Training Camp (Around 20 days). And you would just simulate them and each would just basically be a progression period that would be dependent upon your, ideally, full coaching staff as well as players potential and what not. But I really like the idea of divvying up time to certain drills and activities. I remember NBA Live used to have something similar to this and it worked fairly well.

Perhaps for each day you simulate, you choose the amount of time you devote to certain categories, drills, or activities for that given day and based upon the players you have and the coaches you have, you see very minimal improvements or regressions for players on given days. And to go along with that, say you don't devote any time throughout training camp to conditioning. Make it so that throughout training camp your players' stamina ratings dip a bit until you start devoting time to it. And I don't mind having a setting or slider for injury severity throughout these modes. I know a lot of people wouldn't like losing their best player while simulating stages of the off-season but at the same time, that stuff happens. More options is always a plus though.

To go with this as well, these camps would be a great time to involve something like the Team Chemistry and Playbook Knowledge factors. If you don't devote enough time to position meetings and playbook study, your players would suffer a little bit. Give the user the option to control the difficulty of how expansive this is so that if they just want to simulate the whole thing and get progression results, that's possible. This all goes along the lines of "progressing the players the way you want to" that they were big on before, it's just in a more realistic way.

As for the 90-man rosters, it's a give or take for me. I'd like to see it just because it's accurate to real life. But at the same time, if you just took what we have now and upped the roster limits to 90 it would be pretty much meaningless. But if you pair it with some other things where roster management is more imperative on composing your roster of "the right 53" rather than just "the random 53" then it starts to become something more. You start to get camp studs along with guys that really are just camp bodies. And then if something like practice squads is involved, guys that are more familiar with your team are more valuable and easier to develop.

There is so much potential here and this is all without even playing anything which, to me, is perfect. I'd have a blast going through and simulating each day of camp and strategizing different ways to build my roster and players.

[rock456]

Absolutely need more realisric draft classes, 85 strength corners 88 speed dts etc dont exist irl

[friscob]

Great post Duece. Would really love the ability to restructure contracts and have more control over the disbursement of money in them. Every contract shouldn't have to be so back loaded.

For scouting and the draft i think all the physical traits should be provided. The stuff you learn at the combine (speed, acceleration, strength, jumping, etc). Could possibly make the numbers off a little bit based on how good a teams scouts are, making it more important to have a good scouting department. Scouting points should only be getting used for positional information to find out how good a player is on the field. Maybe even set up the ability to have player visits to obtain more information on certain players before committing to them. Wouldn't be that difficult for EA to make some of this happen

[DeuceDouglas]

Quote: Originally Posted by friscob

Great post Duece. Would really love the ability to restructure contracts and have more control over the disbursement of money in them. Every contract shouldn't have to be so back loaded. For scouting and the draft i think all the physical traits should be provided. The stuff you learn at the combine (speed, acceleration, strength, jumping, etc). Could possibly make the numbers off a little bit based on how good a teams scouts are, making it more important to have a good scouting department. Scouting points should only be getting used for positional information to find out how good a player is on the field. Maybe even set up the ability to have player visits to obtain more information on certain players before committing to them. Wouldn't be that difficult for EA to make some of this happen

I think more and more I'm feeling like there shouldn't be anything like scouting points. The combine stuff absolutely should be given to you but the one thing I don't like now is the fact that you have to scout players to know anything about them. That's kind of what I tried to work around here.

You have scouts that are good or bad and based on that the information you are given is more or less accurate but still not so pinpoint that you know the exact make of the player like you can now. Now you scout a guy and he has an A for something and you know it's good. He has D, you know it's bad. But with this maybe you have an average scout and he says he has an A for something but it's actually a C. And on the same point, something that is a C might be a B or A. And then even with the combine data, a number doesn't pinpoint anything. A 4.3 forty says yes he's fast, but it doesn't immediately say 95 speed. It gives you a decent idea, but not the whole picture.

I think that's one of the most important things for me when it comes to scouting is having a cloud of mystery over the player you're drafting despite having a load of information on him. Obviously, that would be a turnoff to many people but that's always going to be the case when you make things more difficult. And with the ability to hire scouts, you'd still have control over the data you receive. It's a tough thing though.

[DeuceDouglas]

This is probably going to be a fairly lengthy post, just forewarning. Just want to go in on something I mentioned before for the draft but didn't really expand upon and that's pick presentation.

Pick Announcement - I'm not a big fan of cut scenes at all. A cut scene of a player walking up and holding up a jersey with the commissioner wouldn't really do much for me. For me, personally, I wouldn't mind them taking the same approach they've taken with Trey Wingo. Have a voice over of the commissioner announcing the picks after or even before the picked is displayed on your screen. Obviously, getting Roger Goodell in to do a bunch of audio for names, colleges, and positions of every draft class probably isn't a viable option. But if you just get somebody with a good voice, it's not authentic, but it is still pretty cool IMO. Basically the idea is that when the pick is made you get something along the lines of this:

Quote:

Trey Wingo - Looks like the pick is in. Let's go to the stage. Commissioner/Voice - With the 23rd pick of the NFL draft, the Kansas City Chiefs select....Dee Ford. Defensive End. Auburn. The Bengals are now on the clock.

It's just something that would just be audio but I think would still add a lot to the draft presentation. Having Goodell would be ideal but I don't think necessary. It would also be pretty seamless as it wouldn't interrupt anything you were doing if you were trying to make a trade or review your draft board, it would just happen in the background.

And then after that, you get to...

Pick Analysis - The most common thing in watching the draft. The pick is made and you get the analysis from Kiper or McShay or Mayock. Just for an example of what I'm talking about, here's some of the draft day TV analysis from Mike Mayock from the some of the first rounders:

Quote:

"He's 6-foot-5, 266 pounds. He's got 34-inch arms. He ran a ridiculous 4.53 at 266. He's explosive. He flashes in every game. When he woke up this morning, he was the most talented lineman on the planet. The knock on him is that he's not always consistent. The criticism is that he flashes explosion, but he doesn't do it enough. The talent demands that he becomes the best defensive player in the league."

Quote:

"He ran 4.65, but he's faster than that. His game tape against Ohio State is single best game tape against Ohio State I'd ever seen. He plays with intensity. He's going to be an All-Pro."

Quote:

"He's only been a defensive end for two years. He needs experience. When you watch the tape, does he look like Jason Taylor or what? There's a lot of upside, and Mike Zimmer and his staff will get it out of him."

Quote:

"At 190 pounds, he was able to make a lot of people miss. At the NFL Scouting Combine, he ran a 4.33 40-yard dash. This is a guy who catches the ball easily."

Quote:

"He's 6-foot-5, 240 pounds with 35-inch arms, and you're talking about a catching radius. However, there's one thing about wide receivers with only one year of college production and it's a little sobering when you look at the names on that list: Stephen Hill, Greg Little, Devin Thomas, Anthony Gonzalez."

Quote:

"He's a true free safety. The concern is frame and durability is an issue. He can play strong safety, but I worry about his frame over a 16-game season. This is a kid who's a natural center fielder, but he'll move up to make a play."

Quote:

"His mother was an All-American sprinter at LSU. His dad played football at LSU. He's got all the measurables. He's also one of best route runners in this draft. He's very advanced in terms of his route running."

Now there's one thing I immediately notice about all of those and that's the amount of generic things said. Obviously, not every player analysis is like this but essentially what you've got there is a soundboard of NFL draft cliches that can be stitched together for any given player to create his own unique report or backstory. And that last one there. That's for Odell Beckham and it reminds me a lot of a storyline type thing you would see in Madden, just not as in-depth. And the fact that it isn't in-depth I look at as a good thing. There are some specificities within some of these but nothing that couldn't be changed into a generic statement that could be applied to a broad range of draft picks.

If there was to be something like this for nearly every player for the first 3 or 4 rounds (and then sporadically throughout the later rounds where you show the last five or ten selected and talk about one or two guys) I think it could be something that makes the draft drastically more entertaining and authentic. It would be scaling back a bit from the in-depth stories but would be able to be applied to pretty much every prospect in the draft while still potentially maintaining some sort of storyline type stuff.

There's a lot more stuff I could get into like draft banter (team needs, draft review, etc.) but I think I'll leave it at this. The main goal for me is to eliminate the amount of dead space within the draft and make it feel more alive instead of just hearing Wingo say who's on the clock and the 10 stories out of 224 picks.

[DeuceDouglas]

Still waiting on some CFM info for Madden this year so I figured in the mean time I'd lay out how exactly I'd like to see the off-season play out. I'm going to go stage by stage much like is currently done in CFM. I'll explain most processes a little bit but try to keep it short and sweet as I've gone through most of it throughout the thread. Some of it probably won't make any sense as stuff that I mention isn't even in the game but I'm just going through how I would like to see it handled hopefully this year and into the future.

Stage 1 - Retirements - Figure this is the easiest place to start. Just like old times. Show everybody that 's retired from the league to start the off-season.

Stage 2 - Staff - This is where you would hire and fire staff. Would like to see this handled similar to free agency. Ideally, you'd have a staff full of positions coaches which would include HC, OC, DC, QB, RB, Receivers, OL, DL, LB, DB, ST, and Strength & Conditioning. Coaches would have ratings for attributes relevant to their position.

Stage 3 - Re-Sign Players - I do like the renegotiating in the middle of the season but for the sake of improving the off-season I would put this here. Another thing I'd like to see during this process is players wanting extensions as well.

Stage 4 - Free Agency - Straightforward. Part one of two.

Stage 5 - The Draft™ - The off-season showcase.

Stage 6 - Undrafted Free Agents - A session identical to free agency where teams go after the left over pot of undrafted prospects.

Stage 7 - Post-Draft Free Agency - A second stage of free agency to fill out the rosters to the full 90-man limit. Handled identical to the first free agency stage, just with what's left over.

Stage 8 - Rookie Mini-Camp - A simulated 3-day rookie mini-camp. This would be a progression stage for all your drafted and undrafted rookies as well as potentially try-out players or "camp bodies". The progression would be minimal from an attributes standpoint and would work more on things like playbook familiarity. Injuries are possible. Players would progress based on some form of potential as well as the quality of the coaching staff and the players position specific coaches.

Stage 9 - Organized Team Activities (OTA's) 1 of 3 - Another simulated 3-4 day period. Non-mandatory so players who may have contract issues or are unhappy may choose to skip (see Brandon Flowers, Marshawn Lynch, Vernon Davis, etc.). Again, progression/regression would be minimal and would also still be based primarily on coaching staff and the players.

User would be able to choose how much time of each practice goes to certain areas of development (pass offense, 9-on-7, conditioning, etc.) on a day-by-day or overall scale. Injuries also still possible (Sean Lee, Sean Witherspoon, etc.)

Stage 10 - Organized Team Activities (OTA's) 2 of 3

Stage 11 - Organized Team Activities (OTA's) 3 of 3

Stage 12 - Mandatory Mini-Camp - Virtually the same as OTA's except players who may have chose to not attend will now be in attendance. Holdouts here would be nice but it's foggy as to what the NFL will/won't allow. Progression works the same as OTA's and by now is starting to build up a little bit.

Stage 13, 14, 15 - Training Camp (w/ Preseason Weeks 1 & 2) - Much like OTA's. 15 days. Injuries slightly more likely due to full contact practices as well as injured players potentially missing practice.

MOAR PROGRESSION. Progression would work identical to the OTA's and be minimal each day. I thought about having more progression during training camp but I figure if you've got a good player progressing over 9-12 days of OTA's and then 15 days of training camp, there doesn't need to be much of a boost. Intertwined with your first two preseason games.

No roster cutdowns (full 90-man throughout).

Stage 16 - Preseason Week 3

Stage 17 - Roster Cuts & Waiver Claims (75-Man Limit) - Cutdown stage. 15 player cuts. Also included would be a waiver claim period after cuts to put claims on any players released (and eligible for waivers) by other teams. If awarded any player(s), additional cuts would have to be made in order to drop to 75.

Stage 18 - Preseason Week 4

Stage 19 - Final Cuts & Waiver Claims (53-Man Limit) - Final cutdown stage. 22 players. Same goes as the last. Players eligible to be claimed go through the waivers process and the 53-man roster is finalized.

Stage 20 - Practice Squad - The 20th and final stage of the off-season. An eight man practice squad formed from leftover cuts. Things like playbook & scheme knowledge would put an increased emphasis on having players familiar with your team (i.e in mini-camps/training camp). NFL practice squad rules apply. Players gain very minimal progression over the course of the season but mostly gain playbook & scheme knowledge.