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Was/has there been any franchise info released?

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Old 06-16-2014, 01:49 PM   #57
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Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

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Originally Posted by bucky60
Your strong loop is also in direct conflict with game balance. Stats creating progression only gives more stats.
It's not my strong progression loop. The XP mechanic is a staple of the entire video game industry.

It's in sports games. It's in first-person shooter games. It's in role playing games. It's in mobile games. It's in MOBAs. It's in real-time strategy games. It's in racing games. It's in damn near everything. Video game players eat up XP loops, because the amount of progress they need to improve their character is immediately quantified, the tasks to reach those goals are discrete, and it immediately creates sub-objectives and sub games within the high-level game. It's addictive. It's "I gotta grind out one more level before I cut this game off." It keeps players engaged with your game and therefore keeps players in the game therefore earns the game maker money from free word-of-mouth advertising by said gamers talking about what games they are playing and enjoying.

This is not just my argument. This is the entire video game industry. The support for the mechanic is in the games that sell. The support for the mechanic is in the studies done upon it explaining why it works, what motivations it triggers in a player's brain to explain why they enjoy it. Stats to create more stats is the entire point; you play well in a game, your character gets stronger and earns more abilities so you can play against more challenging and interesting characters.

If you have a problem with XP loops in general, might I suggest that video games with XP loops (which is most of them, anymore) simply aren't for you? Your opinion - though you are free to hold it - is quite literally at odds with twenty to thirty years of trends in the video game space and absolutely not the view of the overwhelming critical consensus on the matter.
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Old 06-16-2014, 01:59 PM   #58
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Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

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Originally Posted by CM Hooe
It's not my strong progression loop. The XP mechanic is a staple of the entire video game industry.

It's in sports games.
It just started in sports games. It's been in RPG where CHARACTER BUILDING/LEVELING UP is part of the game. Where it actually belongs. In games of fantasy. Sports games are completely different. They emulate something in real life. Player improvement is a huge part of that emulation in franchise modes. This XP mechanic just started in sports games.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
If you have a problem with XP loops in general, might I suggest that video games with XP loops (which is most of them, anymore) simply aren't for you? Your opinion - though you are free to hold it - is quite literally at odds with twenty to thirty years of trends in the video game space and absolutely not the view of the overwhelming consensus on the matter.
I have a problem with XP loops in sports games. I prefer realism in sports games. If I want fantasy like Skyrim or Fallout, I'll pop those into my PC. This XP trend in sports games has not spanded over thirty years. It's been like 2 years so far.
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:09 PM   #59
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Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

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Originally Posted by bucky60
I have a problem with XP loops in sports games. I prefer realism in sports games. If I want fantasy like Skyrim or Fallout, I'll pop those into my PC. This XP trend in sports games has not spanded over thirty years. It's been like 2 years so far.
XP loops don't belong in first-person shooters either, yet one of the biggest reasons Call of Duty multiplayer got as big as it has and why that franchise is now the most lucrative piece of boxed media in all of entertainment is because that game has an addicting-as-hell feedback loop which rewards players for playing and playing well.

XP loops don't belong in Forza Motorsport either, yet one of the biggest draws and components of the game design of that game in its recent iterations is the concept of player level, which rewards players for driving racings, driving races safely, and driving races quickly and placing well. Over time, the player accrues XP and with that XP earns reward cars with which to compete against faster cars on different courses at different events. Forza has arguably overtaken Gran Turismo as the king of racers in the console space at this point, and its feedback loop to keep the player engaged is in my opinion a huge reason why it has been so successful.

You can't blame sports game makers for merely following the trends of the rest of the video game industry to cater to a wider player base. Video game companies make games with the intention to sell them and make money; the games happen to be carefully designed to meet the wants of what the vast majority of players want to play, so that those players will want to buy their games and play them so said company may make more games. It has nothing to do with realism, it has everything to do with keeping players of the video game engaged in the game.

I'm sorry that you are not one of these players, but with the exception of text simulators the industry has by-and-large moved on from where your interests lie.
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:17 PM   #60
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Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

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Originally Posted by CM Hooe
XP loops don't belong in first-person shooters
First person shooters are like role playing games. XP loops make more sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
XP loops don't belong in Forza Motorsport either
Racing games, golf games, are more like role playing games than sports games. XP loops make more sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
You can't blame sports game makers for merely following the trends of the rest of the video game industry to cater to a wider player base. Video game companies make games with the intention to sell them and make money;
When the company advertises simulation and realism, and they removed any choice via exclusive license, yes I can blame them for not making realism an option.
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:40 PM   #61
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Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

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Originally Posted by bucky60
First person shooters are like role playing games. XP loops make more sense.
With the exception of the XP loop at this point, the game mechanics are not even remotely similar in first-person shooters and traditional role-playing games (unless you are counting genre-blending games like Mass Effect or Bioshock, which also have XP loops and were designed to have them). I don't understand how you begin to make this assertion at all.

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Racing games, golf games, are more like role playing games than sports games. XP loops make more sense.
Racing games and golf games are in-fact sports games. That's not up for debate. Racing and golf are sports. The video games more often than not tend to replicate those sports (battleships on golf courses notwithstanding). Ergo they are sports video games. Ergo the XP mechanic is in sports games not named Madden.

Further, XP loops also appear in team sports games such as MLB The Show, apparently (never played, so I couldn't tell you how it works) and NBA 2K via the Virtual Currency system which is tied to every mode in the game (2K has arguably exploited to try to extract every last penny from its player base, but that's a completely different topic of discussion). These are team sports games which, like Madden NFL, have jumped on the XP loop train because it's a game mechanic which has proven successful time and time again based on what people who play video games - not just sports gamers, but everyone - are buying, playing, and spending micro transaction money on.

It makes sense because it makes money. Realism is no object.

Quote:
When the company advertises simulation and realism, and they removed any choice via exclusive license, yes I can blame them for not making realism an option.
So it's only a bad idea because Tiburon specifically is doing it and we're still holding decade-old petty grudges over video games? Got it.
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:46 PM   #62
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Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
With the exception of the XP loop at this point, the game mechanics are not even remotely similar in first-person shooters and traditional role-playing games (unless you are counting genre-blending games like Mass Effect or Bioshock, which also have XP loops and were designed to have them). I don't understand how you begin to make this assertion at all.
Honestly, if they just give us the option to turn XP off, then this wouldn't be an issue. That way we can have the standard progression system that doesn't involve XP or give us back the option to edit ratings within Connected Franchise.
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:49 PM   #63
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Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

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Originally Posted by goravens2052
Honestly, if they just give us the option to turn XP off, then this wouldn't be an issue. That way we can have the standard progression system that doesn't involve XP or give us back the option to edit ratings within Connected Franchise.
If you choose to have the AI progress players for you, this means of gameplay in connected franchise mode already exists.

Allowing full player editing in offline CFM play would be nice, however.
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Old 06-16-2014, 03:04 PM   #64
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Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

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Originally Posted by CM Hooe
With the exception of the XP loop at this point, the game mechanics are not even remotely similar in first-person shooters and traditional role-playing games
Your building up a single character which is far different than emulating progression in a team oriented sport like baseball, basketball, football, hockey, soccer etc.

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Originally Posted by CM Hooe
Racing games and golf games are in-fact sports games.
Your building up a single character which is far different than emulating progression in a team oriented sport like baseball, basketball, football, hockey, soccer etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
Further, XP loops also appear in team sports games such as MLB The Show,
I play MLB The Show franchise mode all the time and I don't do any XP progression loop. Progression seems to be tied to the players potential in MLB The Show. Unless you are talking about a some kind of a superstar mode, and your trying to RPG progress your single player. I never do that, but XP loop seems reasonable in that case, but just for the single superstar character.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
NBA 2K via the Virtual Currency system which is tied to every mode in the game (2K has arguably exploited to try to extract every last penny from its player base, but that's a completely different topic of discussion).
I've had NBA2K for the PC for the last 4 years and haven't done any XP loop progression when playing there association/franchise. They have training camp stuff during the offseason that is optional, but the main progression seems to come from the players potential rating and the ratings of the coaches. Again, that may be different in a superstar mode.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
So it's only a bad idea because Tiburon specifically is doing it and we're still holding decade-old petty grudges over video games? Got it.
And where did this come from? I think I've been very consistent about wanting REALISM in team oriented sports games. Are you twisting my words? Are you lying about what I'm posting? Shouldn't doing things like that be against the TOS? Because I want realism in my team oriented sports games I have a decade-old grudge? I expect an apology from you for the personal attack. I haven't thrown any accusations at you for liking arcade in your sports games.

Last edited by bucky60; 06-16-2014 at 03:12 PM.
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