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The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

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Old 06-17-2014, 10:15 AM   #97
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

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Originally Posted by BezO
Their plan/priorities are simply not inline with what some of us want. They're baby stepping too many facets instead of blowing out areas I feel should have priority.
Baby steps are a side effect of being the only football game in town. First, why would you blow out an area and risk breaking it? The only thing that could happen is lost sales. Second, if you change too much too fast you have nothing to help sell next year's game.
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:40 AM   #98
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

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Originally Posted by kjcheezhead
Baby steps are a side effect of being the only football game in town. First, why would you blow out an area and risk breaking it? The only thing that could happen is lost sales. Second, if you change too much too fast you have nothing to help sell next year's game.
I guess breaking the game could happen.

But of course they would have stuff to sell next year. The same stuff they're selling now, just better.

1st year, sell the most realistic locomotion in a sports game, ever.
2nd year, sell the most realistic sports AI, ever.
3rd year, sell the best broadcast presentation, ever.
4th year, sell the best season/franchise, ever.
5th year, sell real NFL voices, onfield, pre/post game & half-time interviews.
6th year...

There's always something to sell. But IMO, a simulation sports game should look & play like one 1st. General locomotion should be priority #1, IMO. Takling is a close 2nd. Related AI is mixed in with those. Then everything else.
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:55 AM   #99
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

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Originally Posted by BezO
I guess breaking the game could happen.

But of course they would have stuff to sell next year. The same stuff they're selling now, just better.

1st year, sell the most realistic locomotion in a sports game, ever.
2nd year, sell the most realistic sports AI, ever.
3rd year, sell the best broadcast presentation, ever.
4th year, sell the best season/franchise, ever.
5th year, sell real NFL voices, onfield, pre/post game & half-time interviews.
6th year...

There's always something to sell. But IMO, a simulation sports game should look & play like one 1st. General locomotion should be priority #1, IMO. Takling is a close 2nd. Related AI is mixed in with those. Then everything else.
All those things are back of the box features on an almost yearly basis. General locomotion was a big selling point for Madden 09, 11 and "true step" last year.

Broadcast presentation and new camera angles have been used multiple times as well including this year.

All new smarter AI better , coverage every year.

Tackling was fixed with protak in 10, rtp in 13, flushed out rtp in 25...

Again. If you completely redo these things, the game loses its madden feel and hardcore gamers get upset. Or you risk breaking something. Plus you can't put it on the back of the box next year. Of course, some will say the developers just aren't that talented. Which may be true, but the cynic in me says it's intentional on some level.
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:22 PM   #100
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

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Originally Posted by kjcheezhead
All those things are back of the box features on an almost yearly basis. General locomotion was a big selling point for Madden 09, 11 and "true step" last year.

Broadcast presentation and new camera angles have been used multiple times as well including this year.

All new smarter AI better , coverage every year.

Tackling was fixed with protak in 10, rtp in 13, flushed out rtp in 25...

Again. If you completely redo these things, the game loses its madden feel and hardcore gamers get upset. Or you risk breaking something. Plus you can't put it on the back of the box next year. Of course, some will say the developers just aren't that talented. Which may be true, but the cynic in me says it's intentional on some level.
I'm not sure we're disagreeing much. Things can always be done better. I'm saying do more in fewer areas so the features actually shine. There will always be something to sell. Signature animations can follow good general animations, for example.

But I do doubt seriously that Madden fans are married to the Madden feel when it comes to stiff, unrealistic animations & non-football AI. The most casual of fans wouldn't be mad at the game looking more like what they see on Sundays. Big plays & big hits can always be had via difficulty settings.

I'd bet that more realistic features have a better chance of breaking the game because of all the band-aids added every year. Building on broken code seems like a waste of time to me. The way they segment the improvements hasn't worked yet. We have inaccurate passes now. What happens when WR/DB interaction is intorduce, or when they fix the drop/route timing? Will that code need to be rewritten? Can you fix anything independant of realistic animations without having to redo it once they animations are addressed?

And I don't think it's the developers that lack talent. But I wouldn't argue that they have been producing the game they've been aiming for either.
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:37 PM   #101
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BezO
I'm not sure we're disagreeing much. Things can always be done better. I'm saying do more in fewer areas so the features actually shine. There will always be something to sell. Signature animations can follow good general animations, for example.

But I do doubt seriously that Madden fans are married to the Madden feel when it comes to stiff, unrealistic animations & non-football AI. The most casual of fans wouldn't be mad at the game looking more like what they see on Sundays. Big plays & big hits can always be had via difficulty settings.

I'd bet that more realistic features have a better chance of breaking the game because of all the band-aids added every year. Building on broken code seems like a waste of time to me. The way they segment the improvements hasn't worked yet. We have inaccurate passes now. What happens when WR/DB interaction is intorduce, or when they fix the drop/route timing? Will that code need to be rewritten? Can you fix anything independant of realistic animations without having to redo it once they animations are addressed?

And I don't think it's the developers that lack talent. But I wouldn't argue that they have been producing the game they've been aiming for either.
I disagree with madden players being married to that madden feel. I think that is a huge factor. Listen to madden fans talk about 2k games. They feel trapped in animations, that they don't have enough control, that 2k is like watching a game. Short, choppy animations are the easiest way to give users maximum control. You can't just break out of longer, smoother ones as easy. I think developers have been making the game they want to in all honesty.

I'm in total agreement with the rest of your post.
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:36 PM   #102
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

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Originally Posted by kjcheezhead
I disagree with madden players being married to that madden feel. I think that is a huge factor. Listen to madden fans talk about 2k games. They feel trapped in animations, that they don't have enough control, that 2k is like watching a game. Short, choppy animations are the easiest way to give users maximum control. You can't just break out of longer, smoother ones as easy. I think developers have been making the game they want to in all honesty.

I'm in total agreement with the rest of your post.
Which just baffles me to no end. Those same players enjoyed Madden 2001-2005 all of which are games that had long animations, steamboat style locomotion/momentum and I'd venture to say 95% of them think 2001-2005 are better games than anything we've had on 360 and PS3 and even NG Madden 25. So yeah, they have more control now then they've ever had, but it doesn't mean much when they don't like the game like they used to because of it.
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:46 PM   #103
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

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Which just baffles me to no end. Those same players enjoyed Madden 2001-2005 all of which are games that had long animations, steamboat style locomotion/momentum and I'd venture to say 95% of them think 2001-2005 are better games than anything we've had on 360 and PS3 and even NG Madden 25. So yeah, they have more control now then they've ever had, but it doesn't mean much when they don't like the game like they used to because of it.
In some respects, it's backwards. EA currently has long, drawn out, canned tackle animations that can't be broken when each defender should be able to affect a tackle in progress. But they allow twitchy, swervy running and the ability to disengage from blocks & slap linemen around at will, when these actions require breaking momentum and related animations should be drawn out a bit more.

I agree that 2K's animations allowed for less control at times, but it seemed to fit. I rarely felt I should've been able to break an animation that I couldn't.

And the running/footwork in older Maddens was less forgiving & more realistic. And folks complained when they removed it. IDK.
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:58 PM   #104
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BezO
In some respects, it's backwards. EA currently has long, drawn out, canned tackle animations that can't be broken when each defender should be able to affect a tackle in progress. But they allow twitchy, swervy running and the ability to disengage from blocks & slap linemen around at will, when these actions require breaking momentum and related animations should be drawn out a bit more.

I agree that 2K's animations allowed for less control at times, but it seemed to fit. I rarely felt I should've been able to break an animation that I couldn't.

And the running/footwork in older Maddens was less forgiving & more realistic. And folks complained when they removed it. IDK.
We don't disagree. I'm just saying it baffles me that people complain about not having control when the Madden games they said were the best had a lot less control then they have now.
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