The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

[GiantBlue76]

I don't think the tackling in the newest version of the game is atrocious. The problem with it is the scripted outcomes. If I hit a running back in the backfield when he is flat footed, he shouldn't suddenly spin forward for 8 yards. He might spin, or get knocked off balance, etc. etc., but nothing is going to make him magically go forward. This is just an example. It's these types of plays that ruin the good ones that DO occur. I want to believe that what I am doing on the field when it comes to pursuing and tackling the ball carrier actually means something. If I hit a guy from the right side, I want him to react realistically from the force of the hit and not see him fly to the same side that I hit him on.

That being said, you can play the new game and see some really nice looking wrap tackles and double hit tackles. I had seen one where my HB (who was Andre Brown) was running to the strong side on a stretch play when he was held up by a DT, then a linebacker came in and knocked him on his ***. It looked real and very organic, and I suffered a 3 yard loss on the play. These are the types of things that should be prevalent on every play, not just 50% of the time. Weight, momentum and positioning all need to come into play for realistic tackling to occur. With some tweaking and enhancements, this could potentially be a strong point for Madden football. However, until it's consistent and takes momentum into account, there will be a lot more complaining.

[hanzsomehanz]

I don't find the tackling to be atrocious albeit it is a shame the tackling is where it is in this iteration and not more dynamically interactive.

I will however go as far as saying that the propensity of tackle fails vs trucks and succcess rate of shoestring tackles is atrocious.

Quote:

I thought M13 was going in a good direction to create a more dynamic tackle and collision/impact system.

I would like to see in future developments that tackling styles & techniques are varied and appropriated to situations.

Spoiler

Within moderation and appropriation the devestating hit-sticks have a place in the game providing they occur situationally but void of the nature of context: these hit-stick hits become a cheap eye-sore and lazy gimmick to replace the neccessity for proper technique and fundamentals.

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[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

We don't disagree. I'm just saying it baffles me that people complain about not having control when the Madden games they said were the best had a lot less control then they have now.

We completely AGREE. I'm just saying the current philosophy is backwards.

And I think folks would adjust to what's considered less control if the animation feedback & transitions were good.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by GiantBlue76

I don't think the tackling in the newest version of the game is atrocious. The problem with it is the scripted outcomes. If I hit a running back in the backfield when he is flat footed, he shouldn't suddenly spin forward for 8 yards. He might spin, or get knocked off balance, etc. etc., but nothing is going to make him magically go forward. This is just an example. It's these types of plays that ruin the good ones that DO occur. I want to believe that what I am doing on the field when it comes to pursuing and tackling the ball carrier actually means something. If I hit a guy from the right side, I want him to react realistically from the force of the hit and not see him fly to the same side that I hit him on.

Your line seems to be drawn further back is all. Those canned animations are what we feel make the tackling atrocious. Almost every tackle I'm seeing is out of context just like you describe. And once you contact the ball carrier, your input is over. 5 times out of 10, any defenders in the area are content watching. 4 times out of 10, they fall over, I'm guessing to give the impression they're in on the tackle. An that other time, the 2nd defender blast the ball carrier like you describe below.

Quote: Originally Posted by GiantBlue76

That being said, you can play the new game and see some really nice looking wrap tackles and double hit tackles. I had seen one where my HB (who was Andre Brown) was running to the strong side on a stretch play when he was held up by a DT, then a linebacker came in and knocked him on his ***...

And that is the only version of a "2-man tackle" you will see in Madden. Compare that to the 2K vid posted (might be another thread). The initial defender will engage the ball carrier and the momentum is contextual. Then another defender will come in and change the momentum. Sometimes it's a big hit that puts the ball carrier on his ***. Sometimes it simply get's the momentum moving backward. Sometimes it's something else. The gang tackling is truely dynamic. That is not the case AT ALL in Madden from what I can see.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

Your line seems to be drawn further back is all. Those canned animations are what we feel make the tackling atrocious. Almost every tackle I'm seeing is out of context just like you describe. And once you contact the ball carrier, your input is over. 5 times out of 10, any defenders in the area are content watching. 4 times out of 10, they fall over, I'm guessing to give the impression they're in on the tackle. An that other time, the 2nd defender blast the ball carrier like you describe below. And that is the only version of a "2-man tackle" you will see in Madden. Compare that to the 2K vid posted (might be another thread). The initial defender will engage the ball carrier and the momentum is contextual. Then another defender will come in and change the momentum. Sometimes it's a big hit that puts the ball carrier on his ***. Sometimes it simply get's the momentum moving backward. Sometimes it's something else. The gang tackling is truely dynamic. That is not the case AT ALL in Madden from what I can see.

Yes, valid points. Madden's tackling has never been at the caliber that 2k8 has. I don't find it "atrocious" I guess. I found it atrocious on the 360. The next gen is still lacking, but it is much better. To be honest, I am probably in the minority in that I never wanted a RTP engine. I liked the physics engine that 2k used in their product and I felt Madden could achieve a high degree of realism simply utilizing this same type of tech. The Physics engine is not bad in some cases, but they are still a ways away from really nailing it, and it is also opening a whole new can of worms with other aspects of the game. For example, assisted tackles, pass interference and other interaction-related game elements are absent due to the use of this engine.

Anyway, back on point, the contextual element of the tackles in madden is done very poorly at times, and that really hurts the game. That's why you feel like it doesn't matter what you do on a 3rd and inches call on the Goaline for example. You could get great penetration up the middle against a HB Dive, yet the HB will go into a pre-determined animation sending him forward, regardless of where he's being hit/tackled. This issue extends beyond tackling as well.

[HingleMcCringleberry]

^ Those animations like the tumble forward where one guy goes for the tackle, and the running back just continues to fall for 10-15 extra yards while everybody else stands around kills the game. Not only that, but you literally can't do anything about it but watch. And I don't expect them to fix it since it's happened for years.

[TalenT]

I'm not a Madden basher by any means, and actually enjoy the game, but I have to agree w/ everybody when it comes to the animations. It's kinda sad to say but the area that their animations shine the most is celebrations. Sideline catches are pretty to look at too. The two things that should've been covered a very LONG time ago, because they are pretty important parts of football, are "running & tackling". Neither animates very well.

[BigDaddyHolmes]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnnyg713

I know jp can stick up for himself but I have to chime in. This team has been working on the game the last few years. They've put in a whole new physics engine, completely redone running mechanics which accurately represent how running backs play the game, completely redone coverage AI, completely changed how to play defense in the game and ratings look to matter this year (for example QB accuracy). Not to mention they've completely redone ol/dl interactions and logic. They are arguably the best ever in a video game. He said it takes 3-5 years for a development team to implement their full plan in the game. It's been 2 years with this team and he clearly implied that next year or the year after the game will finally be what we are looking for. He's confident because he is happy with what the team has done up to this point, as am I. Does it still need improvement, yes but IMO you can clearly see improvements to the things this team has chosen to change SO FAR. Madden has not been good for years because they keep switching dev teams like he's said. Not to mention there have been some terrible dev teams in that 9 year span. If they switch to a new team, the game will take 3 to 5 years for the next dev team to change the game to their liking, unless that team gets fired too. So let's hope this team keeps doing what they're doing, because in my opinion they are doing it right.

What has the new team done that you can say, wow, nailed it, couldn't have been done better,etc? Nothing IMO. Everything they have done feels like patching for the year go by. Even the "physics tackling", their biggest addition, looks like it's gone back closer to how it was before IMO, with more canned animations, and less physic type tackling.


This new team hasn't looked much different to me. Everything still looks rushed, unfinished, with lack of polish. Nothing they have done makes me say, wow, that's the best we ever seen. With the exception of maybe standing still graphics I guess, and that is only when judged against a 2008, and 2005 football game. Woopty doo.