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The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

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Old 06-21-2014, 05:51 PM   #113
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

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Originally Posted by roadman
A new video from Simfbcritic on reach tackles.

Even though it's in the video thread, I thought it was a good place to put it in here, too.

Sim explains this is Phase 1, phase 2 and 3 will be coming down the road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6inZ...ure=youtu.be&a
This isn't directed at you Roadman, and thanks for the info.




However. Phase 1,2 & 3 sounds a lot like their old 3 year plan lines, right?


This "new dev team" is on year 3 or 4 depending on how you view Madden 12 being their first complete year (madden 12,13,25,15), so when exactly do we ever reach the end to one of their plans? Everytime the 3rd year comes, its back to year one,lol.
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Old 06-23-2014, 12:42 AM   #114
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

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Originally Posted by BigDaddyHolmes
What has the new team done that you can say, wow, nailed it, couldn't have been done better,etc? Nothing IMO. Everything they have done feels like patching for the year go by. Even the "physics tackling", their biggest addition, looks like it's gone back closer to how it was before IMO, with more canned animations, and less physic type tackling.


This new team hasn't looked much different to me. Everything still looks rushed, unfinished, with lack of polish. Nothing they have done makes me say, wow, that's the best we ever seen. With the exception of maybe standing still graphics I guess, and that is only when judged against a 2008, and 2005 football game. Woopty doo.
With all the E3 hype dying down now, I will say emotions have ran a little high around here. There are many who come to the forums with very negative posts and no matter what is shown will hate what they see. This is not directed towards anyone, just a sense of what I got. To try and give a different perspective, I may have been a little over positive with the game...

Having said that. I find the running game is extremely well done. I'm not talking animations. Just talking gameplay wise in general. OL/DL play is fantastic in the run game and the logic is definitely there IMO. I find running the ball really fun and it is by far the best part of the game for me.

Everyone said they needed to address defense this year which they have. If they can hit on the things they've added (pass rush, coverage logic, tackling) like they hit on the running game, I think this would be a huge success. Again not talking animations, just logic and how it all plays.

This leaves the passing game for next year.

So a break down of this 3 year plan (major phases of the game. And yes major phase is debatable):
Running game (check)
Defense (hopefully check)
Passing game (next year assuming)

They must work on animations obviously, but when it comes down to how the game plays and feels, I think they are closer than what many people give credit for. It may not look great animation wise yet but I certainly think the game will be damn fun to play this year. Strictly gameplay wise they can "nail it" next year in all 3 phases.

Last edited by johnnyg713; 06-23-2014 at 12:57 AM.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:28 AM   #115
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

The biggest sign that there is no trust in EA, specifically Tiburon, is we are always looking to something external, that is some outside influence, to fix things. It's always the latest guy they hire, the latest gaming console or hope that they include some grand physics scheme.

But the rinse and repeat will always be there. Every year they throw in "from the ground up" lingo and ride some latest catch phrase with a graphic attached to it.

That is not to say some things don't get improved. They do, but some of the core concepts of football, like tackling, continue to suffer.
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:34 AM   #116
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

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Originally Posted by TalenT
I'm not a Madden basher by any means, and actually enjoy the game, but I have to agree w/ everybody when it comes to the animations. It's kinda sad to say but the area that their animations shine the most is celebrations. Sideline catches are pretty to look at too. The two things that should've been covered a very LONG time ago, because they are pretty important parts of football, are "running & tackling". Neither animates very well.
That's the strange thing about Madden. The game can look good in little pockets and spurts, but in longer stretches the game breaks down.
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:56 AM   #117
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

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Originally Posted by BigDaddyHolmes
What has the new team done that you can say, wow, nailed it, couldn't have been done better,etc? Nothing IMO. Everything they have done feels like patching for the year go by. Even the "physics tackling", their biggest addition, looks like it's gone back closer to how it was before IMO, with more canned animations, and less physic type tackling.


This new team hasn't looked much different to me. Everything still looks rushed, unfinished, with lack of polish. Nothing they have done makes me say, wow, that's the best we ever seen. With the exception of maybe standing still graphics I guess, and that is only when judged against a 2008, and 2005 football game. Woopty doo.
IMO, i dont think the canned animations went away at all. Prior, the canned animation triggered when players were within a certain range which led to suction tackling. Then they made it where players need to make contact for an animation to trigger, but again, the animation has been always canned.

It isnt realistic when a guy is moving forward and then a defender from the side or behind comes to make the tackle and the runner goes backwards. Or a runner gets hid from the side and he stumples forward. Canned animation has always been there, but the difference was it was triggered with contact instead of suction tackling.

Either way canned animations defeats the purpose of true RTP tackling. This is why the game can't have gang tackling, once that animation starts, only the ball carrier and the involved defender can animate while everybody rubs off.
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Old 06-23-2014, 12:23 PM   #118
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

Was the Infinity Engine scrapped? It looks like we have the same tackling engine we had in Madden 09 or NCAA.
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Old 06-23-2014, 12:27 PM   #119
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

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Originally Posted by dkp23
IMO, i dont think the canned animations went away at all. Prior, the canned animation triggered when players were within a certain range which led to suction tackling. Then they made it where players need to make contact for an animation to trigger, but again, the animation has been always canned.

It isnt realistic when a guy is moving forward and then a defender from the side or behind comes to make the tackle and the runner goes backwards. Or a runner gets hid from the side and he stumples forward. Canned animation has always been there, but the difference was it was triggered with contact instead of suction tackling.

Either way canned animations defeats the purpose of true RTP tackling. This is why the game can't have gang tackling, once that animation starts, only the ball carrier and the involved defender can animate while everybody rubs off.
This is pretty much how Tiburon does everything. They play both sides and create a weird hodge podge of... something that they intended to have all the strengths of one side and none of the weaknesses of the other side, but turns out to have all the weaknesses of both and none of the strengths of either.

Tiburon Dev 1: Let's have RTP. Canned animations are so passe.
Tiburon Dev 2: RTP has weird ragdoll animations, though. It won't look like Football.
Tiburon Dev 1: How about we use RTP to trigger canned animations?
Tiburon Dev 1 and 2: Brilliant!!!

The end product is anything but "brilliant" unfortunately.
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Old 06-23-2014, 12:49 PM   #120
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

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Originally Posted by dkp23
Either way canned animations defeats the purpose of true RTP tackling. This is why the game can't have gang tackling, once that animation starts, only the ball carrier and the involved defender can animate while everybody rubs off.
If anything, having a real-time physics engine should've allowed them to produce these naturally like Euphoria did. But Infinity comes across as vastly inferior to that engine in a number of ways, of course that also could be an issue tied to other parts of the system and not directly attributed to Infinity.

Personally, I could take or leave RTP in football games. I just don't want terrible mocap tackling animations like the ones Madden has. That's not an issue that only an RTP can fix; other games have had good mocap tackling animations.

Overall, Madden's animations are very compressed, and that's easy to spot as you watch the players move; the way it looks often times, it's as if the overall program is refreshing at 60fps, but the player animations are moving at 30fps, and there is a lot of framerate inconsistency in this game, slowdown even. But considering the amount of things being processed on-screen, they don't have much choice outside of finding some kind of breakthrough within the confines of their current system. That said, that's a separate issue from the fact that the animations themselves look weird irrespective of the compression level. The animations are just not good.
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