The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

[Jr.]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnnyg713

Yes they re-did trajectories a few years ago, however when i mentioned the passing game I was referring to both offensively and defensively. There are a lot of things that needs to be worked on. WR/DB interactions are one which has been said from the horses mouth will be worked on and the main thing that comes to mind. Things such as pass interference, WR route running, WR/DB 50/50 balls, QB pocket movement, route based passing etc. I'm not saying this is actually what they are going to do, I just think that is the next phase of the game this team is going to work on.

Ahh, thanks for the clarification. I 100% agree with you and would be very happy if those were indeed worked on. Sorry for the confusion earlier.

[johnnyg713]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jr.

Ahh, thanks for the clarification. I 100% agree with you and would be very happy if those were indeed worked on. Sorry for the confusion earlier.

No worries. Like I said in my earlier post, the running game is very good IMO. I'm excited to see if playing defense is as fun as running the ball. IF and it's a big IF, Rex and his team deliver on this second phase then I think the game will be in very good shape.

Once they have things playing right, then they can focus on how it all looks.

[OhMrHanky]

Quote: Originally Posted by apollon42

Was the Infinity Engine scrapped? It looks like we have the same tackling engine we had in Madden 09 or NCAA.

Lol. That's what I said right away when I played 25. I legitimately saw an 'infinite' amount of animations with 13. I was totally impressed with that engine. It had bugs and glitches (especially, right after the play), but I saw gang tackling, and just ultimately did NOT feel the animations were canned. They were very much free flowing. Then, came 25, with Infinity 2.0. And, there they were, canned animations again. Totally disappointed. For me, 13 was a HUGE step forward for madden, but 25 was 2 steps back. Not trying to bash any madden developers here, but my take on what happened was that they got the infinity engine from FIFA, and they did a base implementation of it to the best of their abilities. Because that engine is meant for real time physics and collisions in the soccer world, it was solid out of the box, but would ultimately need more tuning for football. For 25, the developers really got into the code base and screwed up some fundamental parts of the code that were originally free flowing and they added their patented canned animations where they felt it appropriate. This ruined the overall feel of the game for me. But, after tweaking sliders for 6 months, I finally made a set that worked for me. Lol. And, the game plays somewhat more organic now. But, out of the box, major step backwards. I think they're putting things together nicely for 15, though, and actually think that will be a good game out of the box. I'll still tweak sliders to my preference as that is the only way to come close to a true sim experience, but we'll all have to wait and see to play it to see how many animations look canned and/or whether the game is more free flowing. I hope it's more free flowing, but not banking on it.


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[TalenT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Right there is the rub, it seems at times that Tiburon tries to innovate even when what's already been/being done is better. Making Madden a football simulation is not some new slogan, Madden developers have been claiming that for years, yet they have still chosen attempted innovation over proven realism, repeatedly. Just as one example, Ian stated flat out that longer animations were more fluid and realistic/lifelike but that he opted for some new branching tech, ProTak, that used shorter, less realistic animations, for better User control. In general there is nothing wrong with that, it's just a matter of preference, he made User control a priority over realism, the contradiction is doing that while claiming creating a football simulation is the goal. So the issue seems to be that recreating NFL football in a video game using what's already been done isn't that hard but trying to invent some NFL simulation/arcade hybrid is. It's never been done before and Tiburon is the only studio I know of that's been trying to do it for at least 10 years.

I agree 100%.

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

Yeah, I disagree that the foundation is there. I think their problem is that the foundation is off and fixing what we probably think are small to moderate issues are huge issue for them. Are you saying things lacking in current Madden have been done in older Maddens, or in other games? If in other games, yeah. If in older Maddens, can you give an example?

^^^ Lol I knew this was coming. Maybe I used the wrong term. The meaning of "foundation" can differ from person to person when you're talking about a game. Let me rephrase. The game has something to work with. For starters, it's easy on the eyes when still & it actually DOES emulate a good game of football IMO. All they need to do is get those animations in check and work on a few gameplay mechanics (IE the trenches & WR/DB interactions when the ball is in the air) and you might have a nice game on your hands. That's all I'm saying. Do you disagree with that?

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by TalenT

^^^ Lol I knew this was coming. Maybe I used the wrong term. The meaning of "foundation" can differ from person to person when you're talking about a game. Let me rephrase. The game has something to work with. For starters, it's easy on the eyes when still & it actually DOES emulate a good game of football IMO. All they need to do is get those animations in check and work on a few gameplay mechanics (IE the trenches & WR/DB interactions when the ball is in the air) and you might have a nice game on your hands. That's all I'm saying. Do you disagree with that?

Nice graphics. I agree.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Madden emulating football.

IMO, it's more than animations and a few gameplay mechanics. Every set of animations needs AI. Perfect example of a point I'm trying to make in another thread is the catch animations. All these catch animations in the game that weren't being triggered because the game lacked inaccurate throws. Addressing these peripheral issues just shuffles the problems around.

Folks ask for more catch animations, they put them in. Folks ask for inaccurate throws, they're in. Next year folks might recognize the lack of context for the inaccurate throws & complain about the lack of control.

Another example... our good friend Ian had a spectacular demo of ball carrier footwork back in '09 or so. You could jab, juke... you almost didn't need juke buttons. I wish folks could've seen it. Folks would kill for that footwork THIS gen. But it didn't go in because they had issues with defenders using the footwork properly, over running plays & such. I'm guessing that's why True Step is not in for all 22 players still.

They can't re-tier the defensive playbook because the blocking is tied to the defensive assignments. Think about that. This is the type of stuff I'm talking about when I say the foundation is not there. The game is simply not based on football principles.

All that to say, yes, I disagree with that.

[TalenT]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

Nice graphics. I agree. We'll have to agree to disagree on Madden emulating football. IMO, it's more than animations and a few gameplay mechanics. Every set of animations needs AI. Perfect example of a point I'm trying to make in another thread is the catch animations. All these catch animations in the game that weren't being triggered because the game lacked inaccurate throws. Addressing these peripheral issues just shuffles the problems around. Folks ask for more catch animations, they put them in. Folks ask for inaccurate throws, they're in. Next year folks might recognize the lack of context for the inaccurate throws & complain about the lack of control. Another example... our good friend Ian had a spectacular demo of ball carrier footwork back in '09 or so. You could jab, juke... you almost didn't need juke buttons. I wish folks could've seen it. Folks would kill for that footwork THIS gen. But it didn't go in because they had issues with defenders using the footwork properly, over running plays & such. I'm guessing that's why True Step is not in for all 22 players still. They can't re-tier the defensive playbook because the blocking is tied to the defensive assignments. Think about that. This is the type of stuff I'm talking about when I say the foundation is not there. The game is simply not based on football principles. All that to say, yes, I disagree with that.

All the things you mentioned above are not the base of the game though bro. Footplanting is tied into animations, blocking is tied into "mechanics", etc....

My point being...it's not like NBA Elite, where they had nothing to work with. They needed to scrap the whole thing and start brand new. With that being said I give up LOL...we'll never agree and that's fine.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by TalenT

All the things you mentioned above are not the base of the game though bro. Footplanting is tied into animations, blocking is tied into "mechanics", etc.... My point being...it's not like NBA Elite, where they had nothing to work with. They needed to scrap the whole thing and start brand new. With that being said I give up LOL...we'll never agree and that's fine.

My list was mostly problems due to the missing foundation, but

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

Nice graphics. I agree. We'll have to agree to disagree on Madden emulating football. IMO, it's more than animations and a few gameplay mechanics. Every set of animations needs AI. Perfect example of a point I'm trying to make in another thread is the catch animations. All these catch animations in the game that weren't being triggered because the game lacked inaccurate throws. Addressing these peripheral issues just shuffles the problems around. Folks ask for more catch animations, they put them in. Folks ask for inaccurate throws, they're in. Next year folks might recognize the lack of context for the inaccurate throws & complain about the lack of control. Another example... our good friend Ian had a spectacular demo of ball carrier footwork back in '09 or so. You could jab, juke... you almost didn't need juke buttons. I wish folks could've seen it. Folks would kill for that footwork THIS gen. But it didn't go in because they had issues with defenders using the footwork properly, over running plays & such. I'm guessing that's why True Step is not in for all 22 players still. They can't re-tier the defensive playbook because the blocking is tied to the defensive assignments. Think about that. This is the type of stuff I'm talking about when I say the foundation is not there. The game is simply not based on football principles. All that to say, yes, I disagree with that.

How can you use examples like this while claiming in another thread Tiburon is not doing core fixes because people aren't asking for them? lol

This example clearly shows what I was referring to, Tiburon is going to do what they deem possible or easiest, regardless.