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The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

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Old 06-13-2014, 09:56 AM   #41
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdavis82
Actually it's only been two years that Rex Dickson has been there as creative director of gameplay, a position that Madden never even had until he was hired.
WR/DB interactions and gang tackling are part of their plan. It takes 3-5 years to make great sports games with consistent direction across the dev team. It won't be much longer before everything is in the game that we want to have in there. Everyone I've talked to that has been able to go down to Tiburon and see their vision for the future has said that. If we don't see much improved WR/DB interactions, signature animations, gang tackling, better animations period in the next two years then we probably never will. I'm almost certain that one or two of those maybe more will be addressed next year. If you go back to last year, we were mostly talking about the graphics and presentation and what they lacked and about the defense and pass rush needing to balance the gameplay and o line blocking out. The year before that it was o/d line interactions and foot planting and before that physics. So based on the 3 years that Cam has been here, it's kind of predictable that WR/DB interactions and gang tackling are probably next.
So JP, are you going back into "wait 'til next year!" mode? I'm not being snarky, I'm just asking to understand your assessment, in the context of all the conversations we had in the forums last year.

I think people agree we are seeing improvement. But I thought you said last year that this year was "the" year. I remember that as saying this would be a full featured next gen game where most if not close to all community complaints about the game would be reasonably addressed.

By that standard, I think this game looks like progress, but not a full success. Is that your assessment, or is this year's edition in your mind the one that has pulled the game well past its legacy problems into excellence?
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:59 AM   #42
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

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Originally Posted by LorenzoDC
So JP, are you going back into "wait 'til next year!" mode? I'm not being snarky, I'm just asking to understand your assessment, in the context of all the conversations we had in the forums last year.

I think people agree we are seeing improvement. But I thought you said last year that this year was "the" year. I remember that as saying this would be a full featured next gen game where most if not close to all community complaints about the game would be reasonably addressed.

By that standard, I think this game looks like progress, but not a full success. Is that your assessment, or is this year's edition in your mind the one that has pulled the game well past its legacy problems into excellence?
We heard the same thing with Ian Cummings...
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:20 AM   #43
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdavis82
Actually it's only been two years that Rex Dickson has been there as creative director of gameplay, a position that Madden never even had until he was hired.
The other guy is right. It's been around a decade that these things have not been in the game where they were in previously. The company doesn't get a magic mulligan or pass because of poor direction.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdavis82
It won't be much longer before everything is in the game that we want to have in there. Everyone I've talked to that has been able to go down to Tiburon and see their vision for the future has said that. If we don't see much improved WR/DB interactions, signature animations, gang tackling, better animations period in the next two years then we probably never will.
You've been saying this same kind of thing for many, many years. Each year is the same dance. You saying it doesn't make it true. EA/Tib actually doing it, will make it true. I'll wait and see what the actually do. And while they are at it, ask them to give the off-field stuff the same mantra they are now saying about the on-field stuff. Simulation and realism. Ask them to make the off-field stuff realistic, starting with the progression system (make an optional realistic progression system please).
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:30 AM   #44
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

To me the problem is 2 fold.
1) Player AI, the defensive players simply don't have any type of purpose. They are just Robots. Since the game is coded in a way for them to apparently know that a ball carrier is not going to escape the tackle once it is initialed they simply give up on the play. Sure they flow to the ball but then they stop. It's not that it's overly unrealistic it's really more like every team in the game plays like a finesse team. The problem is that teams like the 9ers and the Seahawks, Steelers, and other great defensive teams, finish every play and usually have a lot of bodies bringing pain to ball carriers.

2) Animations make it worse. Since the players don't really go for wrapups. I see their arms extend but they aren't really completing it. The animations are severely outdated and usually I don't blame lack of competition for Madden's short comings but on this 1 I do. Bottom line is back in the days of PS2 every single year the one thing you could count on was fresh new animations. I remember when they first added the stiff arm animations it was the coolest thing ever!. If I had to guess the last overhaul in animations were the 400+ catch animations that just finally got unlocked this year by re-coding accuracy.
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:05 PM   #45
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdavis82
Actually it's only been two years that Rex Dickson has been there as creative director of gameplay, a position that Madden never even had until he was hired.
WR/DB interactions and gang tackling are part of their plan. It takes 3-5 years to make great sports games with consistent direction across the dev team. It won't be much longer before everything is in the game that we want to have in there. Everyone I've talked to that has been able to go down to Tiburon and see their vision for the future has said that. If we don't see much improved WR/DB interactions, signature animations, gang tackling, better animations period in the next two years then we probably never will. I'm almost certain that one or two of those maybe more will be addressed next year. If you go back to last year, we were mostly talking about the graphics and presentation and what they lacked and about the defense and pass rush needing to balance the gameplay and o line blocking out. The year before that it was o/d line interactions and foot planting and before that physics. So based on the 3 years that Cam has been here, it's kind of predictable that WR/DB interactions and gang tackling are probably next.
Im sorry, but the complaints about the interaction/blocking/gang tackling have been complaints since 2k5 came out, that is 10 years ago almost. i understand new developers come and go, but the problem with EA is they focus on changing stuff up to just remove it later on instead of just building upon. No, we do not want damn cones for tackling, we dont want the word perfect on the screen if you get a good jump, honestly i dont really care about the interaction of cb or blocking because i rather have the cb and oline react properly instead of some nice looking animation.

For years now, many comment on how EA continues to add gimmicky features in the gameplay instead of focusing on working on the actual basic game play.

There are so many problems with m25, again, i understand there is turnover, but many of complaints are based on the fact that 2k5 did these things better than ea back in 2004. Online leagues didnt even make it to madden until madden 2010.

Just put in perspective, ea is still catching up to 2k in regards to features and gameplay which is sad. I dont know how many excuses you are everybody else can make for EA, but at some point, they need to stop telling people it is coming and work on the important things on the game. Was it really necessary to change up the whole play calling screen? no.

I understand the game is a big undertaking, but at least get the wind direction correctly, its been wrong for like 2 years
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:10 PM   #46
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

EA's 3 year plans are written in loose sand. They change all the time and so do the head guys in charge. Praying for a fix 3+ years from now is ludicrous. In 3 years half the team will be different. Judge the game on what it is - not on what someone says or promises.

The entire physics engine is off from the player movement to the tackling. I'm not going to say it's atrocious because I don't find it unplayable. I will still get Madden and have fun but it could be a lot better. Unfortunately changing an entire physics engine is costly and I doubt we see it soon. The vast majority of big changes EA implements are done with new hardware. This is the 2nd game on the PS4 and since physics wasn't a priority don't expect it to be.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:43 PM   #47
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

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Originally Posted by reeboyfresh23
Way too many big De-cleating hits! If players irl tackled like they do in Madden, there wouldn't be any players left to field a team. They'd all be fined and suspended for hits on defenseless receivers or out with concussions! Great defensive teams rally to the ball and gang tackle, that's how turnovers are created, not by a cb going 1on1 with a running back and shoulder charging him off his feet causing a fumble!

I've often felt Madden was more "fighting game" than "football game" - and I think it's these 1-on-1 interactions like this that feed into that.

Who can do the right "combo" of moves to create all-or-nothing results.

But even in fighting games, the character's stats/abilities are respected. Madden doesn't even do that in a lot of cases when it comes to user control.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:45 PM   #48
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dghustla
To me the problem is 2 fold.
1) Player AI, the defensive players simply don't have any type of purpose. They are just Robots. Since the game is coded in a way for them to apparently know that a ball carrier is not going to escape the tackle once it is initialed they simply give up on the play. Sure they flow to the ball but then they stop. It's not that it's overly unrealistic it's really more like every team in the game plays like a finesse team. The problem is that teams like the 9ers and the Seahawks, Steelers, and other great defensive teams, finish every play and usually have a lot of bodies bringing pain to ball carriers.

And that's just finishing off the play - let alone reading the field, adjusting to what's happening, etc.

Player behavior has driven me up a wall with Madden for years.
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