The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

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Old 06-13-2014, 02:41 PM   #49
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

Bottom-line, the nuisances of real football player behavior and gameplay is limited in Madden (almost non existent). It has been this way for years. This is why most of us glamour at the other next gen games and wonder why EA can't do the same. Well, they won't as long as there is no comp.
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Old 06-13-2014, 06:12 PM   #50
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

I think most people overlook one of the huge hurdles with making sports games -- the players are different sizes and shapes.

It's mush easier to animate characters in, say, an Uncharted game because the animations are deliberately scripted to have characters of similar size and shape interact with each other, the character initiating the contact is always the same, and the points of interaction are usually the same. In a sports game, this isn't the case -- the players are different sizes, the character initiating the contact isn't the same every time, and the points of interaction could be anywhere from the head to the feet. The dev teams cheat a little by giving the players a smaller range of variety in shapes (i.e. the linemen are all the same shape and proportion, the wide receivers are all the same shape and proportion), but the problem still exists.

The only true solution is a collision system in which every pixel of a character can interact with every pixel of another character (allowing an open animation system instead of a scripted one), but that's a pipe dream. It would take the processing power of every computer on the planet to make that work well and run at a good framerate. (This isn't even a problem limited to gaming -- any engineer can tell you how unstable modeling software gets as soon as you try introducing collisions into a model, regardless of how powerful your PC is.) Every new console makes this a little easier, but I can understand why it isn't, and perhaps never will be, true-to-life.

This is not an excuse, of course -- they've known this from the first day they went to polygons, and they should have something much, much, MUCH better than what they have now. The animations as they exist in Madden are completely subpar. It's just an observation that it's rather unfair to compare sports games to anything else.

P.S. NBA 2K is a good example of the fact that you can do a great job with animation until you need the players to physically interact with each other. The base animations in NBA 2K14 are incredible. They move very realistically, they look great, and it can easily be mistaken for the real thing ... until they need to collide/interact with each other, at which point everything just falls apart as players bounce off of the invisible force fields between them, skate around the court to avoid collision boxes, and enter unbreakable scripted animations (try to dribble around a defender and lose the ball, anyone?).
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:24 PM   #51
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

Originally Posted by Mike Lowery
Based off the videos ive seen it's some of the worst tackling I've ever seen in a sim football game and makes the game unplayable for me. I mean the canned animations ruin everything, they overcome weight, momentum, angles, and ratings. RTP ain't the answer, it's year 3 and it has not improved at all, they need to build a new tackling engine or adopt one such as the one in Back Breaker. Two man tackling is a joke, it only triggers sometimes, too many instances defenders just stand around looking instead of helping on tackles, heck, the tumbleweed and shoulder dive animations looked better than just standing around. I mean with better graphics and new camera angles the bad tackling and animations are more noticeable than ever, makes the game look rushed and unfinished to me. I'm surprise more people arent raising more hell about this, tackling this bad should be unacceptable in 2014. Any word on if they are going to tune the tackling (make two man tackling more frequent) before release?
Since when was Madden a football "sim"
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:27 PM   #52
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

Originally Posted by hawley088
Since when was Madden a football "sim"
Well, in fairness, at E3 Rex got on the mic and made a point to say how he wanted to go on record that they are making "simulation football" now or something along those lines. It is in that HHG video I believe
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Old 06-14-2014, 04:27 AM   #53
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

Originally Posted by BezO
Unfortunately, what has been addressed is not meeting standards set by games 6 years old.

O/D-line interaction looks like it improved only for user controlled players. I'm only seeing lateral movement (steering) from engaged players when the user is involved. Can you confirm this is in for CPU controlled players and they actually use it?

Foot planting is lacking. I've seen ball carriers swerving in every vid. And that's with True Step implemented for ball carriers. The word is True Step is not in for CPU controlled players. Can you speak on this?

With EA working on the game in segments, how long will it be until they get back to something they worked on that's still in bad condition?

Anyone at EA share my feeling that the game won't be close until basic animations are addressed? Without proper footwork and steering for ALL players, the spacing and timing of the game CAN'T be right. Until virtual players move & cover ground similar to real NFL players, plays can't unfold in a realistic way.

It's hard enough to tackle some of the shiftiest RBs in the NFL. With their virtual counterparts defying the limitations of the greatest athletes in the world, and no gang tackling, no wonder someone felt the need for tackling cones.

I was going to respond to JP's response, but once again someone hit it on the nail..

I don't see much of a bright future for Madden as far as true gameplay simulation until they completely rebuild the game engine period.. Sorry but It doesn't get more clear then that..
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Old 06-14-2014, 11:14 AM   #54
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

Originally Posted by jpdavis82
Actually it's only been two years that Rex Dickson has been there as creative director of gameplay, a position that Madden never even had until he was hired.
WR/DB interactions and gang tackling are part of their plan. It takes 3-5 years to make great sports games with consistent direction across the dev team. It won't be much longer before everything is in the game that we want to have in there. Everyone I've talked to that has been able to go down to Tiburon and see their vision for the future has said that. If we don't see much improved WR/DB interactions, signature animations, gang tackling, better animations period in the next two years then we probably never will. I'm almost certain that one or two of those maybe more will be addressed next year. If you go back to last year, we were mostly talking about the graphics and presentation and what they lacked and about the defense and pass rush needing to balance the gameplay and o line blocking out. The year before that it was o/d line interactions and foot planting and before that physics. So based on the 3 years that Cam has been here, it's kind of predictable that WR/DB interactions and gang tackling are probably next.
I hear you JP & that's a realistic way of looking at it. However, most of us are just tired of hearing "wait til next year" or "it's in the plans for the future" regardless of how many different dev teams there has been. Most of the things people are asking for have been in previous football games before (true gang tackling, DB/WR interactions, Signature Ball Carrying Styles in Madden 07, tv style halftime presentation in 2K5, REAL LIVING WORLDS ala APF 2K8, etc..) & that's what's most frustrating. I understand that they had to clean up the previous mess from the Ian Cummings era, but these things should still be in the game by now. I'm sorry but the one year development cycle excuse Isn't going to fly this gen. These systems are way more powerful & have a lot more disk space. Madden 25 next gen used only 12 gigs of disk space when there is about 50 gigs in total available smh. So what that tells us is they didn't go all out on the game. I'll be interested to see how much Madden 15 uses. People are saying that last gen is holding Madden back, but if EA really wanted to they could invest a little more resources, hire a few more talented devs, & have two separate teams working on both versions of the game. But will they do that? Of course not. Let's be honest here, we all know what's going on. EA is milking the NFL license for all it's worth. They've been selling us football in compartments for years & quite frankly I can't really blame them. It's business right? Why give us everything we want when they can push it off til next year to keep us coming back? It's the sad truth. I mean hell, in the past they've even went as far as taken features out of the game only to add them back later & called them "new" smh. You're right when you say this current dev team has only been there a few years & I'm sure they have good intentions, but at the end of the day has EA's business practice in selling us the game in compartments really changed? The NFL is ultimately to blame but I guess that's another topic. All that said, Madden is definitely improving but unfortunately it's at a snails pace due to the exclusive license smh. I do like the direction they're taking & I think this dev team gets it, but I just don't want to have to wait til I'm 40 to play a complete football game lol.
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Old 06-14-2014, 11:58 AM   #55
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

Wait next year. It's in the plan. This dev team needs time.

Who says this dev team or Rex will be on the dev team for next year or the year after. It's sad for some of you guys to make the excuses for them. In this industry you can't count on dev team staying the same. What if Rex leaves before the next game comes out. Will you then accept waiting another three years.
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Old 06-14-2014, 12:40 PM   #56
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Re: The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

Originally Posted by LorenzoDC
So JP, are you going back into "wait 'til next year!" mode? I'm not being snarky, I'm just asking to understand your assessment, in the context of all the conversations we had in the forums last year.

I think people agree we are seeing improvement. But I thought you said last year that this year was "the" year. I remember that as saying this would be a full featured next gen game where most if not close to all community complaints about the game would be reasonably addressed.

By that standard, I think this game looks like progress, but not a full success. Is that your assessment, or is this year's edition in your mind the one that has pulled the game well past its legacy problems into excellence?
Looks like this won't be answered.
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