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EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

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Old 06-17-2014, 05:44 PM   #313
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Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

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Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake
Great marketing teams should be able to sell ice to eskimos, right? Great marketing teams should be able to sell a simulation experience to the casuals, right?
It would be more like selling steak to a vegetarian - g'luck with that.

I do not consider the entire toruney community to be absolitely against simulation systems to the extent they abhor it but I do feel it turns their sthomache some, like a vegetarian who breaks their diet years later.

These sects in Madden are almost akin to diet cults and religious cults. People need groups to identify with and some will join groups without even searching out their own feelings.

To this last point: I believe the casual gamer, who is neither talented enough for toruney nor smart enough for simulation, represents the middle man in every wave of Madden.

The casual gamer is neither at the top of the wave or the bottom so he will neither sink with disappointnent, nor surf with jubilation, nor swim to survive but simply go with the flow.

Naturally, novice users favor the course of least resistance and to this end I feel Madden can do more in their power to stop spoon-feeding success outcomes and implement a more empowering system that promotes and rewards users for their pro-like decisions and gives them a greater sense of genuine Football accomplishment.

[spoiler]
There needs to be a ladder for success and this is something I could genuinely feel in Madden 05 and 06 for PC and it was because I felt more onus to respect the "rules" of the game.

I was a young user in 05-06 but I playd in a Sim league as well as ranked matches and was invited to the MUT tourney one year based on my head to head rankings.

I credit a lot of my success to the mini-camp drills that translated fluently to in-game enviornments and yielded me to have pocket presense, effective tackle steering etc; there was no ball-hawk to warp ints, their was no heat-seeker to warp tackles, there was no teethered passing, there was no ihop service that paved a drive-thru for me to run through - there was a lot of premise on Football fundamentals and true user skill.

I do not recall being nano'd nor did I know how because I could only move the player I was controlling: this was programed into me thru the Sim leagues but this practice did not impede my success.[/
Spoiler]

Instead of scaling back the rules that govern movements and fumdamental techniques such as passing and rushing: we need to refine the rules so they are less forgiving and serve as boundaries to stay within the very paths that shape our success.

I see the current Madden team somewhat steering this way and can appreciate the direction of focus albeit proof will be in the gameplay experience.

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Old 06-17-2014, 05:52 PM   #314
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Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

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Originally Posted by FaceMask
I'm not familiar with DrJones, but him working for EA is a separate matter from what his involvement was--if any--in the drafting, negotiation, signing and keeping of the contract in question. If he wasn't involved in that capacity, then that would make him an outsider on the matter just like the rest of us.

Until we see the contract (and we won't), we can't assume that this per unit thing was ever a thing. Not that per unit deals are uncommon, it's just that there is a lack of proof that this was the deal in this particular matter with the NFL.

Extending onto that, there has never been a single known word from the NFL regarding having a problem with the price of NFL 2K5, so because of that this "NFL was mad about the price of 2K5" concept has to be considered conjecture. There is no proof. Without seeing the contract terms in black and white, there is no proof.

What's not conjecture is that EA had a big problem with the price of NFL 2K5 according to the Pecover documents.

So, no slight against DrJones, but I'm going to stick with what's been proven and what we can see in writing. It's the most logical option.
That's what I'm sayin. Nobody showing up to these message boards were in on the contracts or had anything to do with their signing or the terms. Everything they've heard is second-hand because they had nothing to do with it. I don't understand why people debate against facts with opinions? EA cared, there is nothing to show the NFL did. It's as simple as that. Why can't dudes accept that?
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:54 PM   #315
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Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

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Originally Posted by Gridiron
That's what I'm sayin. Nobody showing up to these message boards were in on the contracts or had anything to do with their signing or the terms. Everything they've heard is second-hand because they had nothing to do with it. I don't understand why people debate against facts with opinions? EA cared, there is nothing to show the NFL did. It's as simple as that. Why can't dudes accept that?
DrJones was involved and is a very reputable source for this subject. Nothing he got was "second hand."
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:58 PM   #316
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Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

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Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake
So the argument that EA Madden largely wants to cater to casuals is not absolute. If the development team actually puts in the time and effort to better replicate football creating a solid simulation experience, and appropriately market it using terms and phrases that'll bait and hook casuals, it wouldn't or shouldn't actually turn off casuals would it considering it will be the only NFL game in town, right?

Simulation Madden can still revolve around MUT if that's what team EA Madden wants to do. Young kids these days pretty much can adapt to most video games, can they not? A simulation product could even strenghthen the brand.

Great marketing teams should be able to sell ice to eskimos, right? Great marketing teams should be able to sell a simulation experience to the casuals, right? Run exactly like Adrian Peterson, throw exactly like Tom Brady or Drew Brees, use Johnny Manzel and take the Browns to consecutive Superbowls, use your stick skills to overcome real football penalties. Run a 2 minute offense just like Peyton Manning. Demolish the competition using the Seattle Seahawk's defense. Shut out the competition and serve up a goose egg. See what a top running back sees. See what a top level QB sees. You. Are. In. Control. Isn't it just finding creative ways and word combinations to serve up simulation gameplay to the casuals?
I'm not arguing that EA can't put a Sim style football game together. I'm arguing they don't have to anymore. They are the only football game out there, and the new generation of kids that are gaming have never experienced Sim style and thus don't know that the current Madden is much different than the Madden from many years ago.

Barring a massive drop in sales for Madden 15, the brand doesn't need to be strengthened. Even people that don't play video games know what Madden is. They recognize the name. The Name itself has a ton of buying power. The only way I could ever see a movement back to a sim style Madden is if 15 completely craps the bed. To the point where it's getting panned by all major critics. And I highly doubt that happens unless Madden has an NBA live type of meltdown.
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Old 06-17-2014, 06:00 PM   #317
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Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

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Originally Posted by coogrfan
With respect, I believe you're seriously mistaken here. It is my understanding that back when EA and Sega were both in the football game business the NFL/NFLPA did not get paid up front:






If this is correct (and DrJones was in a position to know since he actually worked for EA prior to "the Great Purge") that means that Sega wound up paying the NFL only a $1.99 per unit sold instead of $4.99. The notion that the NFL wouldn't care about this or the precedent it might set vis a vis their other business partners is fanciful at best.





Confident or desperate? Again according to VGChartz:


NFL 2k3 (North America) PS2 1.06 million units + XB .38 million units = 1.44 million units


ESPN NFL Football (aka NFL 2k4) PS2 .27 million units + XB .27 million total = .54 million


That's a 62% drop in sales from 2002 to 2003. Under those circumstances I can certainly understand why Sega felt they needed to roll the dice.





Perhaps. The fact that it was an licensed NFL game for a mere $20 and it was released three weeks before Madden (July 20th vs Aug 9th) may have had little something to do with those numbers as well.
I don't get why you keep posting sales numbers? Everybody knows what those games sold.

About this DrJones cat. Okay, he worked for EA, so have thousands of other people. Doesn't mean he knows any more about the deal terms than anybody else. Gotta know his real name and the position he held before any weight can be put on that, man. Sorry, that's just nothing.

I mean, because a dude worked at Wal-Mart, that doesn't mean he had anything to do with their contract with AND1. EA is a big company, and only so many high rankers would have full knowledge of something like that, like their lawyers, CEO, Executive level dudes. I don't think any of them were hanging out on OS back then or even now, for real.
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Old 06-17-2014, 06:03 PM   #318
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Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

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Originally Posted by kehlis
DrJones was involved and is a very reputable source for this subject. Nothing he got was "second hand."
What's his real name? What position did he hold? What was his exact involvement with the contract?
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Old 06-17-2014, 06:15 PM   #319
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Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

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Originally Posted by mellamoaaron
People are overstating NFL 2K5's importance in football gaming. Yes it was a great game at the time it came out, I played it religiously for quite some time, but since Madden 12, EA has been creating a game that is, in my opinion, better than NFL 2K5. NFL 2K5 is great, but let's not act like the game is some sim masterpiece, because it isn't. It played a good game of football and I will always remember some of the crazy games I have played during my time with the game, but I have moved on. I, for one, cannot wait for Madden 15 and the experience I am about to have with it, Tiburon with all their faults have been trying to right this ship and they have done an admirable job since 2012.
On the strength, it's EA's fault that people still compare the games. 2K5 shouldn't have anything on Madden today. APF shouldn't either. But the sad truth, it's got A LOT on Madden right now.

People are just bein real.
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Old 06-17-2014, 06:18 PM   #320
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Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

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Originally Posted by 24
I'm not arguing that EA can't put a Sim style football game together. I'm arguing they don't have to anymore. They are the only football game out there, and the new generation of kids that are gaming have never experienced Sim style and thus don't know that the current Madden is much different than the Madden from many years ago.

Barring a massive drop in sales for Madden 15, the brand doesn't need to be strengthened. Even people that don't play video games know what Madden is. They recognize the name. The Name itself has a ton of buying power. The only way I could ever see a movement back to a sim style Madden is if 15 completely craps the bed. To the point where it's getting panned by all major critics. And I highly doubt that happens unless Madden has an NBA live type of meltdown.
Argument in a general sense....the community. The general sense, the general perspective that EA doesn't want to because it is assumed the casual crowd simply won't accept a truly simulation experience. Strengthen with respect to the simulation crowd.

My point is this, if EA Madden creates a game beloved by the simulation crowd, and EA marketing team markets the simulation experience with addictive words and phrases that reel in the casuals, then it becomes a win. EA wins with the sim crowd, Ea wins with the casual crowd.

Considering the "simulation" direction team EA Madden is moving, wouldn't a massive drop in sales prompt the suits to steer the developers away from simulation? Wouldn't it make more sense for a simulation resurrection if team Madden is developing an outright arcade experience, is heavily marketed and advertised as arcade, and sales is a complete disaster?
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