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Presentation Interview with Brian Murray -- Polygon

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Old 06-18-2014, 03:08 PM   #25
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Re: Presentation Interview with Brian Murray -- Polygon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gridiron
I thought we were talking about in-game game cams?

I have no real beefs with pregame or replays or the quarter breaks. Those all seem straight.
I'm talking about broadcast presentation, not one single element. Also I think any comparisons made should be to CBS because they clearly are trying to replicate their broadcast more than other networks. Hopefully next year they can get full CBS licensing and include the NFL today halftime and wrap up shows.
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Old 06-18-2014, 03:11 PM   #26
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Re: Presentation Interview with Brian Murray -- Polygon

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdavis82
I completely disagree, the opening shots in pregame, the replays in game, the quarter break with real music, that's all authentic.

This is the reason I think the in game cameras are right in M15, shots like this
Nah, JP. That screen is no good because that's showing the ending of a tackle. The motion blur on the players shows the play is just ending, so they're not even in post-play yet. You need to show the shots that happen as he gets up or the defenders get up and there is a celebration or somebody is going back to the huddle. That's when post-play generally starts.
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Old 06-18-2014, 03:15 PM   #27
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Re: Presentation Interview with Brian Murray -- Polygon

That is posterior play, his rear end his showing. hahaha

Oh, post-play, sorry. lol

Carry on, just having some fun
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Old 06-18-2014, 03:20 PM   #28
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Icon5 Re: Presentation Interview with Brian Murray -- Polygon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gridiron
Nah, JP. That screen is no good because that's showing the ending of a tackle. The motion blur on the players shows the play is just ending, so they're not even in post-play yet. You need to show the shots that happen as he gets up or the defenders get up and there is a celebration or somebody is going back to the huddle. That's when post-play generally starts.
That is a real life shot how is it no good?
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Old 06-18-2014, 03:46 PM   #29
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Post Re: Presentation Interview with Brian Murray -- Polygon

Here are some more shots


http://twitter.com/jpdavis1982/statu...279104/photo/1
http://twitter.com/jpdavis1982/statu...202944/photo/1
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Old 06-18-2014, 03:57 PM   #30
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Re: Presentation Interview with Brian Murray -- Polygon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gridiron
But you posted single screenshots...


Also, entire telecasts can be found easily on YouTube. They're all over the place. Here is one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WavbeYl-YKg

But you don't even need entire ones though man. The clips explain enough, especially when we isolate them to situations like post-play celebrations. It's the same on every network. They usually start with a camera that's a bit off, then they switch to a tight shot. Never fails. Happened in Madden 12, not happening consistently in 15. Problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gridiron
Quote:
Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake
I meant provide the link to an entire NFL telecast, or whatever that's available. A single screenshot doesn't really give us a whole lot to work with. All it tells me is something that I already know exist. But the key is how it was implemented during the broadcast.

I want to see how the director decided to shoot the entire sequence, how the camera angle was positioned prior to the zoomed shot and also how the camera angle is positioned after the zoomed shot. It's about technique. It's about the flow. The transition.
Why would you need to go through all of that though? It's not done that way in Madden 15. We already know it's done wrong.


The slow zooming-in is subtle (check the video I posted from 2:00 to 2:07). I could take or leave the subtle zoom-in. It's the critical shot that's needed. The closeup. Without that, the whole thing is pointless.

Nothing can be done about the pulled out camera while you're in the middle of a play. You can't play the game in closeups. You have to play with the camera zoomed out. Even zoom camera is still zoomed out farther than post-play. But honestly, even on TV it's the same. The camera during a play is not zoomed in at the same distance as it is during post-play. So are you saying this kills immersion while watching a real TV broadcast? That doesn't make sense.

On TV, they show a pulled back camera so viewers can see the players before the play. There is some zooming in during the play, but that's a different deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake
In order to properly implement what you're looking forward, team Madden needs to use better transition angles. The camera needs to subtly and slowly zoom in on the play before jumping straight to ultra zoomed in angles.
I'd rather have proper angles than entirely wrong ones though yo. But on TV they cut to tights immediately a lot, so I can't agree with the idea that if they don't have this slow zoom then there should be no tight shots. That's going overboard my dude. Especially since most of the time the camera is not even slow zooming, it's just tracking the player and moving from right to left.




Quote:
Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake
However, Gridiron and I are also talking about the zoomed in close up shots that Gridiron would like to see implemented. Gridiron simply wants those ultra zoomed in shots present during post play sequences. I'm saying it's not a simple as that. I'm saying if Madden team wants to implement those ultra zoomed in angles as seen in prior Madden iterations, it needs to be done tastefully, and done properly, and not just thrown in for the sake of throwing them in.

I'm sorry, but you're not making any sense there. The closeups need to be in, it is that simple. That's the whole point. I never said it was simple to do, but what they're doing right now is completely wrong and they appear to be doing it on purpose, and that makes no sense either. And when you do see them, it's inconsistent. One time they're there, another time they're not, even when the situations are the same, like a celebration. It's messed up.

I posted sequential multiple screenshots for one play, not simply one single screenshot. Sequential screenshot tells a better story of what's going on.

Of course real life TV broadcast keeps me immersed. The way the camera angle happens is dynamic. Another element is that commentary plays a major role in how the video director chooses the camera angle placements. The commentary may say something about the QB getting brutally sacked, and the video director will focus on the sacker and throw in a replay to show the play.

APF2k8 does it correctly. It's done extremely well in APF2k8. After the play concludes (i.e. tackled, sacked, etc.). The camera follows the play, zooms in, and tracks the player for a while before throwing in a closer camera angle. The difference is that APF2k8 also possibly adds a replay angle in there, or simply multiple zoomed in camera angle, along with the opposing team. It's dynamic in 2k8. 2ksports has always done presentation correctly.

And yes, with respect to Madden15. I also meant the tracking of the player component. It requires both tracking the player and subtly zooming before you do a zoom in shot. The transition of tracking and subtly zooming in is needed to make the camera angle transition smooth. Video broadcast is an art form and takes skill. You're looking at it from it must be done this way, and that way.

I hear what you're saying. Here's an example of how to do it appropriately if you want those up close zoomed in screenshots. I added those extra zoomed in close screen shots that's not seen in the video. Edit: But what Madden 15 has in it at the moment is still correct, it's a matter of where to put in up close camera angles. Look below.

@2:11






















I don't really have time to go through the entire Giants vs 49ers video right now. If I had, I would though.

@32:50 Just grabbing a few time marks examples where the shots don't jump to ultra close shot immediately. These shots are pulled back as seen in the current Madden15.



@3:38 similar to what's seen @32:50 above video.



EDIT: There should have been a replay after the touchdown during the @3:38 sequence to give a better feel, then they could have shown an up close zoom on the receiver. It's an art form that Madden15 still needs refinement.
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Last edited by strawberryshortcake; 06-18-2014 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 06-18-2014, 03:58 PM   #31
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Re: Presentation Interview with Brian Murray -- Polygon

Not showing up.

Edit: Still can't see the images. Maybe because I don't have a twitter account.
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Old 06-18-2014, 04:09 PM   #32
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Icon4 Re: Presentation Interview with Brian Murray -- Polygon

Here are some post play M15 shots
http://twitter.com/jpdavis1982/statu...801344/photo/1
http://twitter.com/jpdavis1982/statu...989632/photo/1
http://twitter.com/jpdavis1982/statu...507136/photo/1
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