What Ever Happened To THIS?

[StefJoeHalt]

Quote: Originally Posted by NicVirtue

Not ALL attributes are worthless. A lot of them are broken, and also override other attributes. For example. Speed is speed, no doubt about it. But if I give a DB 70 speed, and 99 Man Coverage, he will keep with a WR with 99 Speed if he is in man coverage, with the speed threshold on default. Acceleration does not visually apply to getting off the line as a WR. It just simply increases or decreases how fast they get to top speed. There is no animation for showing a guy with 50 Acceleration, or 99. They all have the same animation regardless. Kick Return means absolutely nothing for both User and CPU. On CPU returns, all they do is try to truck their way through defenders or spin in a meaningless direction, and NEVER run to the obvious gaping holes. Trucking also can be worthless, when you have QB's trucking over LB's, or DeSean Jackson trucking safeties. Pass blocking ratings don't matter much either, because you can put QB's and Punters at Tackle, and they will go through that animation of putting up a fight, trying to block, instead of getting destroyed off the line. Kick accuracy doesn't matter due to user control. Every other rating is governed by the sliders.

I agree but disagree based on some of what I posted above..during that same time frame Sm27 came up with acceleration does work.. However at lower ratings..once the rating number get up in the 60-90 u can't see a difference..again this is back 2005ish..it may have something to due animations but this starts to get over my head..he had much better understanding of it...also along the lines of ur thought of 70 speed and 99 man coverage..see Champ Bailey..I know not that extreme but knowledge of routes and coverage ability can over come pure speed


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[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by StefJoeHalt

I agree with u..and a simple fix for some issues regarding OL..can be done easily..to credit a great idea sm27 back in I think 2005 requested my help in rerating the game..and one of the big ones he suggested was strength rating..which was caped due to size ie weight and overall strength..which worked extremely well..no WR or RB or to be more specific players other then DL and OL had strength rating over 70..I can't recall exactly but an example..all K and P had 0-5 ratings..RB WR went to between 20-50..or something along those lines..it really help with creating size that mattered..nothing I hate more then a 200lb HB standing up my 320 pound DT..again those numbers are examples and not what Sm27 came up with exactly..which could be done now..however without a draft editor it doesn't help after one season Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah this is a bit off topic but in my Ravens CFM I just drafted a CB with 88 strength. The ratings are out of whack.

But to your point, I do think the scale needs to be adjusted. I think the absolute bottom is 35 or 45 but the ratings cease to matter before then. For linemen I think the game does calculations to determine who "wins" the battle. Obviously this is just a guess, but I think the way it works is that for each attribute point it increases the odds of winning. But it stops at a very high number. So if I were to throw a kicker on the line with 36 strength that would be no different than if I was to put a HB with 56 strength on the line. The game is determined by animations and the trigger for an animation may be like if <60. So even if we lower strength across the board, it would have no real impact.

I remember some guys finding a way to edit the game mechanics in NCAA. They found a way to do things like alter the attribute scale and change other "under the hood" mechanics. We are a long way from that in Madden, but it would be a great help.

Also, just a heads up, Champ was extremely fast. He had elite speed. Not the best example.

[StefJoeHalt]

Champ Bailey last year was not extremely fast but his knowledge of the game and position makes up for his lose of a step or three "most of the time" yes when he first came in the league he was very fast..


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[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by StefJoeHalt

Champ Bailey last year was not extremely fast but his knowledge of the game and position makes up for his lose of a step or three "most of the time" yes when he first came in the league he was very fast.. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last year he missed most of the season due to injury. And he has not been a great corner in quite a few years. And when he was, he had track speed. Just saying, Sherman would have been a much better example.

[NicVirtue]

What I was saying in regards to Man Coverage and speed is that the game speeds up a low speed CB to keep up was a fast receiver. So a 70 speed DB would be moving like he has 90 something speed, back peddling just as fast ans the receiver is running.

[StefJoeHalt]

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

Last year he missed most of the season due to injury. And he has not been a great corner in quite a few years. And when he was, he had track speed. Just saying, Sherman would have been a much better example.

Sherman is more press man, like Bobby Taylor back in the day..using strength and mugging..but your right Champ maybe wasn't best example..was just trying to make point..and yes they don't have a way to show "smarts" so to make it better they speed up smart players


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[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by NicVirtue

What I was saying in regards to Man Coverage and speed is that the game speeds up a low speed CB to keep up was a fast receiver. So a 70 speed DB would be moving like he has 90 something speed, back peddling just as fast ans the receiver is running.

That is a large problem in general. It does not matter what the speed ratings or even man coverage rating is, CBs are able to back pedal nearly as fast as they can run. It has improved a bit over the years though.

I'm not sure about the speed and coverage issue though. I have seen slower corners keep up with fast WRs on go routes, but that was because they got the position. But they get beat often enough to where if I see Torry Smith 1v1 with a slow corner I take the shot. To be honest I think the game does a good job on that front.

The problem I have on deep balls is two fold. First is an issue EA is addressing and that is passing accuracy. I either hit my guy or miss horribly. Second is the amount of ints on those matchups.

On other routes speed does not matter quite as much. A slow CB with 99 MCV should be able to cover the WR on most non vertical routes (ins, outs, comebacks, etc). Drags routes should be a problem, especially if it has pre snap motion. And for the most part I don't have any major complaints in that department.

I think with the new Madden I may run some tests to see what impact agility and acceleration has on the WR/CB matchup. In my opinion those two should matter much more than speed.

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by StefJoeHalt

Sherman is more press man, like Bobby Taylor back in the day..using strength and mugging..but your right Champ maybe wasn't best example..was just trying to make point..and yes they don't have a way to show "smarts" so to make it better they speed up smart players Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't think they speed up players. They just give them boosts in other areas. For Champ's "smarts" they overrate his coverage skills. Usually there is a way to show smarts though. For linebackers it is play recognition for example.

The problem, at least in my experience, is playing the computer. Many of us have to set it to all-madden in order to receive a challenge from the AI and that is what causes problems. But on AM players receive boosts to enhance the difficulty. And because in Madden the scale is so small what happens is that most players appear to be the same.

I think that Madden needs to redo their ratings philosophy. They need to spread out the ratings and/or increase the scale. Particularly the speed of LBs and DL. I felt so cheap the past few years before Ray Lewis retired because of his in game speed.I knew damn well that Ray could not keep up with any decent TE on a go/crossing route. And the speed of 3-4 OLBs is at times ridiculous. It is the same for most positions and attributes.