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Old 06-26-2014, 10:28 PM   #57
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Re: What Ever Happened To THIS?

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Originally Posted by StefJoeHalt
I agree with u..and a simple fix for some issues regarding OL..can be done easily..to credit a great idea sm27 back in I think 2005 requested my help in rerating the game..and one of the big ones he suggested was strength rating..which was caped due to size ie weight and overall strength..which worked extremely well..no WR or RB or to be more specific players other then DL and OL had strength rating over 70..I can't recall exactly but an example..all K and P had 0-5 ratings..RB WR went to between 20-50..or something along those lines..it really help with creating size that mattered..nothing I hate more then a 200lb HB standing up my 320 pound DT..again those numbers are examples and not what Sm27 came up with exactly..which could be done now..however without a draft editor it doesn't help after one season


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The problem here is that if we used REAL metrics to determine a player's ACTUAL strength, you would find that there are many skill players out there who have more overall strength than OL/DL players. Of the 26000+ players in the FBG database, the top 31 are OL/DL. The highest non-lineman is Liam Ezekiel, an OLB. FBG Ratings uses a true strength rating by combining the 1 rep maxes in the bench, squat, and clean. Each test is rated 1-99 independently, averaged, and then the average scores are rated 1-99 again. This is the best test for true strength. What we have found is that there are SEVERAL, high-caliber OL/DL who are not strong, but are technically sound, which makes them more viable.

I mean, does the 600lb guy stuck in his house for life look strong? How strong would he be compared to a 155lb powerlifter who can bench 3 times his bodyweight?

Strength is a function of STRENGTH, not size. This is a HUGE misconception.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:32 PM   #58
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Re: What Ever Happened To THIS?

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Not ALL attributes are worthless. A lot of them are broken, and also override other attributes. For example.

Speed is speed, no doubt about it. But if I give a DB 70 speed, and 99 Man Coverage, he will keep with a WR with 99 Speed if he is in man coverage, with the speed threshold on default.

Acceleration does not visually apply to getting off the line as a WR. It just simply increases or decreases how fast they get to top speed. There is no animation for showing a guy with 50 Acceleration, or 99. They all have the same animation regardless.

Kick Return means absolutely nothing for both User and CPU. On CPU returns, all they do is try to truck their way through defenders or spin in a meaningless direction, and NEVER run to the obvious gaping holes.

Trucking also can be worthless, when you have QB's trucking over LB's, or DeSean Jackson trucking safeties.

Pass blocking ratings don't matter much either, because you can put QB's and Punters at Tackle, and they will go through that animation of putting up a fight, trying to block, instead of getting destroyed off the line.

Kick accuracy doesn't matter due to user control.

Every other rating is governed by the sliders.

The way Madden measures speed is by the maximum velocity. You are correct in your understanding about how SPD and ACC work in Madden. All players, no matter what size, position, etc, accelerate up until the 40 yard mark in a sprint. Once they get to 40 yards, their acceleration is at 0, their velocity is maxed out, and they continue at that maxed out velocity until the play ends (via tackle, TD, or otherwise). ACC is actually the measure of the initial velocity at the very instant after the player starts to move forward. The higher the initial velocity, the higher the ACC rating. The higher the velocity at the 40 yard mark, the higher the SPD rating.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:34 PM   #59
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Re: What Ever Happened To THIS?

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@CMHooe, I deleted my first response because I believe sometimes you play devil's advocate just for the sake of a spirited discussion and that's cool. No way I believe you are actually meaning that just because Tiburon states how something should work, that is the way it does in-game. Wind has been in the game forever yet they just came out this year to state "wind matters now" for M15, lol.

Anyway, it's all good man, we all would like to see all ratings have a more prominent impact on player performance.
Just like zone, pursuit angles and the wr catch animations. None of those worked the way they said by their own admission.

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Old 06-26-2014, 11:55 PM   #60
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What Ever Happened To THIS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCEBB2001
The problem here is that if we used REAL metrics to determine a player's ACTUAL strength, you would find that there are many skill players out there who have more overall strength than OL/DL players. Of the 26000+ players in the FBG database, the top 31 are OL/DL. The highest non-lineman is Liam Ezekiel, an OLB. FBG Ratings uses a true strength rating by combining the 1 rep maxes in the bench, squat, and clean. Each test is rated 1-99 independently, averaged, and then the average scores are rated 1-99 again. This is the best test for true strength. What we have found is that there are SEVERAL, high-caliber OL/DL who are not strong, but are technically sound, which makes them more viable.

I mean, does the 600lb guy stuck in his house for life look strong? How strong would he be compared to a 155lb powerlifter who can bench 3 times his bodyweight?

Strength is a function of STRENGTH, not size. This is a HUGE misconception.

I don't disagree with any of that...but strength in this game could be used to help off set that there is no size/mass...ie 330 pound Alan Branch against 200 RB who is huge gym rant ie Doug Martin..Martin can't stand up Branch (pass blocking or even run blocking) no matter true strength


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Old 06-27-2014, 12:10 AM   #61
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Re: What Ever Happened To THIS?

So I just ran some tests, and found that lowering Agility to 0 makes the players step more realistically and less herky jerky. BUT, sprinting, and cutting up field gives you the exact same animation as if you were to have 99 agility. The same crisp, hard angled cut, regardless. I also tested setting route running to 0, and it gives a better, more natural look to WR's routes. In other words, the animations just slow down...that's about it. DB's still react to 0 route running the same way they do to 99 though.
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:32 AM   #62
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Re: What Ever Happened To THIS?

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Originally Posted by NicVirtue
So I just ran some tests, and found that lowering Agility to 0 makes the players step more realistically and less herky jerky. BUT, sprinting, and cutting up field gives you the exact same animation as if you were to have 99 agility. The same crisp, hard angled cut, regardless. I also tested setting route running to 0, and it gives a better, more natural look to WR's routes. In other words, the animations just slow down...that's about it. DB's still react to 0 route running the same way they do to 99 though.
This was done on next gen? What do you mean by "setting route running to 0?"
I did a similar test on ps3 Madden 13 and the results were different. I created two WRs with same attributes except for RTR.I then created two identical CBs to cover each. Both WRs ran nearly all routes identical. The animations were not slowed down. The only difference was in what the CB did. For the 99 RTR, the CB did things like that fakeout animation where he runs the wrong way for 5 yards. Mostly the CB was just slower to react to cuts. But for the 50 RTR, the CB matched him cut for cut.

I then edited the corners. One was given 99 MCV and the other 50. The 99 MCV completely shut down the poor 50 RTR. Hell even the curl route versus cover 1 was blanketed. Meanwhile the 99 RTR was having a field day with the 50 MCV. This was with all physical ratings being equal.

I did not do any testing on agility/acceleration however. But I plan on it. Will probably do the same thing and change agility instead of RTR and seeing what impact it has.
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:38 AM   #63
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Re: What Ever Happened To THIS?

^ i think he's talking about setting the route running attributes/ratings of players to 0.
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:46 AM   #64
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Re: What Ever Happened To THIS?

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^ i think he's talking about setting the route running attributes/ratings of players to 0.
Right but, and I know this is over thinking it, but if you do that you have no control group so to speak. What I mean is what exactly did he do? Did he turn on Madden, edit WRs to 0 RTR, play the game and try to spot differences from memory? Did he play with default ratings first and then edit? Then spot differences from memory?
People naturally look for patterns. If you do that method I promise you you will find something different.

I know I am taking it a bit overboard, but hey I do research and analysis for a living. And I will not stand for bad science!
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