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Old 07-14-2014, 12:23 AM   #9
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Re: The Extra Point

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Originally Posted by CM Hooe
This is probably not going to happen given how much detail (be it triangles, texture memory, or shader operation) Tiburon likes to put in just the players and stadiums in the currently-playing game. Not until the console hardware gets at least a generation stronger, at least.

A second render target can be an expensive operation depending on what you're trying to do, and creating a new animated, lit, and shaded 3D animating scene with complex geometry dynamically (i.e. it's not just a simple GUI rendering surface with 2D HUD / presentation elements) is going to be an example of something that's computationally expensive. To simplify it, you basically have to render the graphics of Madden twice with different assets during the time the game currently spends rendering Madden once. That's going to slow the game down dramatically in its current state.

To do this effectively, Tiburon would have to be able to have several teams' uniform assets, rosters, and stadiums loaded at once (possibly home and road for the QB's team if they wanted to go the whole nine yards with this) and be able to switch between these to create new scripted football scenes dynamically at runtime without latency. They'd probably also have to significantly cut back on the detail displayed on the two teams in the actual game, be it triangles in the player models and stadiums, texture quality used on those 3D meshes, and/or complexity of their shader code. All for eight seconds apiece for each quarterback intro.

It's not impossible, but it's also not worth it. The FMV implementation is the much easier, much more practical solution in that it doesn't require any of those above changes, and it has the same 'wow' presentation effect in fooling a user into thinking he's watching a television broadcast.

---

As to the Extra Point - meh. It didn't knock my socks off when it was first introduced and I don't really miss it. If Tiburon revisits it, I agree that they shouldn't go the green-screen route for it.
Why would any of that be necessary to replace the real life video highlights with pre-rendered video game highlights? Couldn't they just prerecord highlight videos using video game assets, like they do for those "in-game footage" trailers and put those videos in place of the real life ones?

Last edited by Big FN Deal; 07-14-2014 at 01:04 AM. Reason: Didn't want the post to get taken the wrong way.
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Old 07-14-2014, 12:28 AM   #10
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Re: The Extra Point

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Originally Posted by Big FN Deal
Hold up, wait, I'm no computer science major so maybe I'm missing something and you can fill me in. Why would any of that be necessary to replace the real life video highlights with pre-rendered video game highlights? Couldn't they just prerecord highlight videos using video game assets, like they do for those "in-game footage" trailers and put those videos in place of the real life ones?

Right?!? They do highlights on NBA 2k pre -game.


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Old 07-14-2014, 12:35 AM   #11
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Re: The Extra Point

Not to mention, this might be a good opportunity to utilize the new cloud technology that is becoming available for these consoles. Then again, other games already do this, but whatever.
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Old 07-14-2014, 01:01 AM   #12
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Re: The Extra Point

My entire life I've been against FMV with/alongside video games. I just looks bad, in game and in trailers, I just don't like it. In this day and age, I don't get why any developers do it, it just pulls you out of the game.

All the PR: "Madden looks so realistic this year", Russell Wilson runs out with himself in FMV in an overlay, Me: "certainly doesn't look that way anymore". It just shows all the flaws, it's like advertising a 2001 car and then ending the ad with the car driving next to the 2014 version.
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Old 07-14-2014, 01:14 AM   #13
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Re: The Extra Point

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Originally Posted by Big FN Deal
Why would any of that be necessary to replace the real life video highlights with pre-rendered video game highlights? Couldn't they just prerecord highlight videos using video game assets, like they do for those "in-game footage" trailers and put those videos in place of the real life ones?
They could do this, actually. The way the thought was posed originally, I assumed the desire was everything in real-time, which is why I responded the way I did. That was probably a bad assumption on my part; it's late and I'm tired.

They could also use the cloud to download user-submitted highlights of players, as others have alluded to, assuming they had some means to filter out the cream from the crap.
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Old 07-14-2014, 04:03 AM   #14
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Re: The Extra Point

One of my greatest disappointments was back in 2010. All of us really enjoyed the way the halftime show was handled in 2k5, but were told that there was no way remotely possible that Madden would include anything seen in the 2k series.

One afternoon during a community day the topic of presentation came up and everyone was in complete agreement that 2k5 had the presentation locked up and why the team couldn't simply copy the idea of what 2k did. They were told then and there that their opinion of the 2k presentation was awful and boring and that their presentation was miles ahead of what 2k had previously done lol.
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Old 07-14-2014, 06:11 AM   #15
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Re: The Extra Point

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One of my greatest disappointments was back in 2010. All of us really enjoyed the way the halftime show was handled in 2k5, but were told that there was no way remotely possible that Madden would include anything seen in the 2k series.

One afternoon during a community day the topic of presentation came up and everyone was in complete agreement that 2k5 had the presentation locked up and why the team couldn't simply copy the idea of what 2k did. They were told then and there that their opinion of the 2k presentation was awful and boring and that their presentation was miles ahead of what 2k had previously done lol.
Sometimes people need to just leave their egos at the door, and take off their rose colored glasses. Even if you've been doing something for years on end, doesn't mean improvements cannot be made. Sometimes people need to get off their high horse. You don't always have to reinvent the wheel. Often, improvements on an existing product simply works best even if that means improvement on a competitor's product.
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:37 AM   #16
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Re: The Extra Point

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimsontide27
One of my greatest disappointments was back in 2010. All of us really enjoyed the way the halftime show was handled in 2k5, but were told that there was no way remotely possible that Madden would include anything seen in the 2k series.

One afternoon during a community day the topic of presentation came up and everyone was in complete agreement that 2k5 had the presentation locked up and why the team couldn't simply copy the idea of what 2k did. They were told then and there that their opinion of the 2k presentation was awful and boring and that their presentation was miles ahead of what 2k had previously done lol.
I know this is a "new team" but hearing stories like this just bothers me. These guys actually think the stuff they do is great and amazing, and if no other sports games were made in history, they probably would be, but there are other sports games and we see how far behind Tiburon is. They not only think some of the crap they do is "good enough" but also better than good enough and imo that's simply not the case. I really hope these guys get there **** together for the sake of my football videogame addiction, lol.
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