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Idigital Times Madden 15 Hands On EA Summer Showcase(near final build)

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Old 07-14-2014, 09:52 PM   #33
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Re: Idigital Times Madden 15 Hands On EA Summer Showcase(near final build)

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Originally Posted by Big FN Deal
I agree with most of that, yet that still leaves the issue of either having to have some unrealistic INTs, unrealistic INT drops or both. I guess it's a matter of having to accept some level of results oriented realism, even if the process is unrealistic. Some complain about the unrealistic looking dropped INTs but how else, until core game play fixes are available, do they avoid unrealistic INTs?

The more I think about it, it's probably better to have broken up passes/dropped INTs than INTs, in realistic non INT situations, because I'm not sure the INTs would cause players to stop passing. It might just make them feel the need to pass more to make up for those INTs, where as incompletions might be a solid deterrent, without inducing the desire to make it for it.

One of the biggest issues with Madden and the way people play it, imo, is the numbers game of down and distance. It has always been far too easy to get a first down passing within 3-4 tries/downs. If passing windows are really more tight and QB accuracy actually matters, then that might be enough to realistically skew that numbers game, without unrealistic INTs. By "unrealistic" I mean according to the situation, not the number of INTs.
What's an unrealistic INT though? If you throw the ball and hit's the defenders hands he should catch it most of the time, depending on the player of course. Now if you do that 7 times are they unrealistic because the NFL average is 2? I don't think so. Unrealistic is the LB leaps and psychic DB type stuff.

I do agree there should be more balls on the ground than picked off. Madden needs to add a lot to the WR/DB interaction and that will stop balls from being picked off. I think you mentioned before about how WRs turn into defenders to stop INTs in the NFL, so until they do that, among other things, in Madden too there will be more INTs.

The biggest issue with madden is the way people play it. Better yet, the way Madden allows people to play. Why did dropping back 15 yards and throwing bombs become a norm? Because madden allowed it. So now people will just have to adjust.
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Old 07-14-2014, 10:57 PM   #34
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Re: Idigital Times Madden 15 Hands On EA Summer Showcase(near final build)

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Originally Posted by wordtobigbird
What's an unrealistic INT though? If you throw the ball and hit's the defenders hands he should catch it most of the time, depending on the player of course. Now if you do that 7 times are they unrealistic because the NFL average is 2? I don't think so. Unrealistic is the LB leaps and psychic DB type stuff.

I do agree there should be more balls on the ground than picked off. Madden needs to add a lot to the WR/DB interaction and that will stop balls from being picked off. I think you mentioned before about how WRs turn into defenders to stop INTs in the NFL, so until they do that, among other things, in Madden too there will be more INTs.

The biggest issue with madden is the way people play it. Better yet, the way Madden allows people to play. Why did dropping back 15 yards and throwing bombs become a norm? Because madden allowed it. So now people will just have to adjust.
Meaning plays where some kind of pass break up would occur in real life, instead of an INT. Just because someone throws a pass even to a well covered receiver, doesn't mean it's an automatic INT in real life, there are so few INTs in the real NFL because catching all but the easiest of them, like tip balls, overthrows or jumping routes, is difficult. What makes the elite pass defenders elite is the fact that they will hawk the ball like a receiver, trying to make the catch/INT, where other pass defenders just generally look to break up the pass or at least make the tackle. That's partly because of concern of DPI and Defensive holding/illegal use of hands but that's not relevant to Madden either so....

Anyway my point was that seeing as Madden lacks so many of the elements to represent real world processes that lead to incompletions instead of INTs, they end up having dropped INTs occur in those situations, which I guess is better than unrealistic INTs.
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:22 PM   #35
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Re: Idigital Times Madden 15 Hands On EA Summer Showcase(near final build)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big FN Deal
Meaning plays where some kind of pass break up would occur in real life, instead of an INT. Just because someone throws a pass even to a well covered receiver, doesn't mean it's an automatic INT in real life, there are so few INTs in the real NFL because catching all but the easiest of them, like tip balls, overthrows or jumping routes, is difficult. What makes the elite pass defenders elite is the fact that they will hawk the ball like a receiver, trying to make the catch/INT, where other pass defenders just generally look to break up the pass or at least make the tackle. That's partly because of concern of DPI and Defensive holding/illegal use of hands but that's not relevant to Madden either so....

Anyway my point was that seeing as Madden lacks so many of the elements to represent real world processes that lead to incompletions instead of INTs, they end up having dropped INTs occur in those situations, which I guess is better than unrealistic INTs.
I agree. Madden DBs warp to the ball way to fast (and the balls are under thrown all the time). It's definitely not that the DBs are catching too many balls that are right to them, it's that they're in position to make an INT way too much. The DBs need to be just out of position and only able to tip the ball a lot more often.

While sliders help, I really don't want to use them as they're a total band-aid for awful animations and overall horrendous player moment. Not to mention they make the two hand INT drop animation happen even more.
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Old 07-15-2014, 05:08 AM   #36
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Re: Idigital Times Madden 15 Hands On EA Summer Showcase(near final build)

This my main point has been about Madden the past few years. The AI getting way to many ints in one game. On avg a QB might 2-3 ints a game. Maybe 4 depending on somethings. But 4-5 ints in a half so unreal and stupid. EA wants make the AI play smarter and play harder. But I got news for EA. Not every team D in the NFL plays like the Seahawks or the Packers. There is some teams in the NFL the struggle against the pass or the run. But my main pain in the neck problem is the AI with hands made of glue. I wish EA would make the AI bat down ball more then anything. I'm sick of throwing a bad pass and the AI be no where in site and then all of a sudden come out from no where and int the ball. Complete and utter ball crap. This is mine complaint about the gameplay in Madden in the past few years. That and the AI getting to human controlled QB in a second and a half. That's my main complaints and concerns right now.
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:10 PM   #37
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Re: Idigital Times Madden 15 Hands On EA Summer Showcase(near final build)

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Originally Posted by The_Balm
I agree. Madden DBs warp to the ball way to fast (and the balls are under thrown all the time). It's definitely not that the DBs are catching too many balls that are right to them, it's that they're in position to make an INT way too much. The DBs need to be just out of position and only able to tip the ball a lot more often.

While sliders help, I really don't want to use them as they're a total band-aid for awful animations and overall horrendous player moment. Not to mention they make the two hand INT drop animation happen even more.
I definitely see what you guys are saying but I didn't think about if he might be throwing to warping DBs or just making horrible decisions.

What we need is "true step" for DBs so you cant be running full speed down the field but turn and jump 3 feet in a split second because the ball is coming.
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:22 PM   #38
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Re: Idigital Times Madden 15 Hands On EA Summer Showcase(near final build)

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Originally Posted by wordtobigbird
I definitely see what you guys are saying but I didn't think about if he might be throwing to warping DBs or just making horrible decisions.

What we need is "true step" for DBs so you cant be running full speed down the field but turn and jump 3 feet in a split second because the ball is coming.
This goes for every player on the field. They all should be making realistic movements and not contorting magically because they psychically determined the ball was coming. Those are the moments that make you want to throw your controller through your TV and is the root of much of the angst towards madden. It's not frustrating to lose. It's frustrating to lose because the game scripted it with some ridiculous animation or out of context occurrence that is so ridiculous, you don't want to play it. Tiburon is constantly searching for what to do next to keep customers playing Madden, but the solution is actually quite simple. Realistic player movement for ALL players on the field. Fool me into thinking they are living entities and not video game drones that do silly things. If they can accomplish that elegantly then that will take madden to new heights and would certainly earn back the sales of many lost fans.
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:58 PM   #39
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Re: Idigital Times Madden 15 Hands On EA Summer Showcase(near final build)

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Originally Posted by GiantBlue76
This goes for every player on the field. They all should be making realistic movements and not contorting magically because they psychically determined the ball was coming. Those are the moments that make you want to throw your controller through your TV and is the root of much of the angst towards madden. It's not frustrating to lose. It's frustrating to lose because the game scripted it with some ridiculous animation or out of context occurrence that is so ridiculous, you don't want to play it. Tiburon is constantly searching for what to do next to keep customers playing Madden, but the solution is actually quite simple. Realistic player movement for ALL players on the field. Fool me into thinking they are living entities and not video game drones that do silly things. If they can accomplish that elegantly then that will take madden to new heights and would certainly earn back the sales of many lost fans.
This is true. And a lot of times it comes across as pure CPU cheese. It happens all the time in NBA 2k14 also, don't even get me started. But it's worse in Madden. And for all these flaws, an experienced player can still use sliders that actually work to make an overall competitive NBA 2k14 experience, with some animation cheese warts mixed in. Unfortunately, Madden hasn't been able to provide at least that.
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Old 07-17-2014, 12:35 AM   #40
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Re: Idigital Times Madden 15 Hands On EA Summer Showcase(near final build)

We will know for sure how dedicated this team of developers at Tiburon and the other studios are to "sim" football if the community starts complaining about the INT rate being too high and they nerf the accuracy differences. If they leave it be, then that tells me they are headed in the right direction instead of 180s every year.
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