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Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

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Old 07-16-2014, 11:50 AM   #89
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

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Originally Posted by SmittyD81
I understand what you're saying, but those types of big hits happen in the NFL. When trying to depict a DYNAMICALLY CHAOTIC sport like football, there is no manuscript to follow that says how a "big hit" can be depicted in video game form/real life, or who can make the big hit. As you seen in that video, the tackling can be VERY violent in appearance, but can also be very textbook too. ESPN, NFL Network or someones top 10 plays doesn't determine how an element can or should be played out. It just needs to be in the game as an available tool to be utilized. The caliber of the hit, depending on the player ratings, size, situation, etc. should determine how the hit can play out.
In context. They do. In Madden, they seem to just happen based on hit power rating, more so than in the appropriate context. Nearly all the clips of big hits provided so far, that were similar to the ones in Madden were done in the right context, where a receiver was not even ready to make a move once he caught the ball. There's a clip in the trailer that has Patrick Willis smashing Marshawn Lynch as if he isn't Marshawn Lynch, while he's running squared up. I have NEVER seen Lynch get blown up by any 1 man in that context, and in that manner.

And there have been times in the past when people would say "oh they're just showing it off for the trailer, you won't be able to do it that easy in the final game", and when the final product comes out, any and everyone can do it. Not saying you're saying that, but I can feel that notion coming on. It's just like the stiff arms from NCAA. I'm not saying take the hit stick out the game, I'm saying that even if a guy like Patrick Willis tries to blow up Marshawn Lynch, while he's running straight at him, then those WWE style hits should not be in the animation pool, as Lynch is not one to be thrown around by 1 man. Not because his trucking is 100, but because he keeps his feet moving/churning and his size/strength plays a role as well. Madden has the wrong ratings doing the work.
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Old 07-16-2014, 02:12 PM   #90
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmittyD81
I understand what you're saying, but those types of big hits happen in the NFL. When trying to depict a DYNAMICALLY CHAOTIC sport like football, there is no manuscript to follow that says how a "big hit" can be depicted in video game form/real life, or who can make the big hit. As you seen in that video, the tackling can be VERY violent in appearance, but can also be very textbook too. ESPN, NFL Network or someones top 10 plays doesn't determine how an element can or should be played out. It just needs to be in the game as an available tool to be utilized. The caliber of the hit, depending on the player ratings, size, situation, etc. should determine how the hit can play out.
For me, the issue with those hits is how the defender is always in a position to do it. I think if the contextual awareness was better, and the way you can attempt to tackle had more to do with how the defender's positioning was at that moment it would do a lot of good for the game. I find it silly that I force fumbles all of the time with Prince Amukumara. I see him level receivers with that big hit nonsense 6 times a game. Really? Prince is a strong corner, but he's not LaRon Landry or the second coming of Jack Tatum. Those are the kinds of things that ruin your immersion experience because it's laughable. If I am playing on Rookie level or even Pro, maybe I can understand, but on All Madden, I don't want to see that nonsense. Especially on plays where it's a WR screen and he comes running in and just flattens the receiver. When do you see that? He'd probably be going low to attempt to wrap up his legs. These are the types of things that if you simply watch an NFL game, even just one quarter, you can see how players interact and tackle. These big, silly hits are not that common, but when they do happen, they should be accurately represented in the game in the right context. Not just because I decided to use the hit stick.
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:36 PM   #91
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

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Originally Posted by GiantBlue76
For me, the issue with those hits is how the defender is always in a position to do it. I think if the contextual awareness was better, and the way you can attempt to tackle had more to do with how the defender's positioning was at that moment it would do a lot of good for the game. I find it silly that I force fumbles all of the time with Prince Amukumara. I see him level receivers with that big hit nonsense 6 times a game. Really? Prince is a strong corner, but he's not LaRon Landry or the second coming of Jack Tatum. Those are the kinds of things that ruin your immersion experience because it's laughable. If I am playing on Rookie level or even Pro, maybe I can understand, but on All Madden, I don't want to see that nonsense. Especially on plays where it's a WR screen and he comes running in and just flattens the receiver. When do you see that? He'd probably be going low to attempt to wrap up his legs. These are the types of things that if you simply watch an NFL game, even just one quarter, you can see how players interact and tackle. These big, silly hits are not that common, but when they do happen, they should be accurately represented in the game in the right context. Not just because I decided to use the hit stick.
GB I agree with all this, but personally, I stay away from All-Madden because legend has it the CPU players are jacked more than normal.

I still see it plenty of times on all-pro, though, so, your point remains valid with me.

Just something randomly I caught in your post.
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Old 07-16-2014, 07:18 PM   #92
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiantBlue76
For me, the issue with those hits is how the defender is always in a position to do it. I think if the contextual awareness was better, and the way you can attempt to tackle had more to do with how the defender's positioning was at that moment it would do a lot of good for the game. I find it silly that I force fumbles all of the time with Prince Amukumara. I see him level receivers with that big hit nonsense 6 times a game. Really? Prince is a strong corner, but he's not LaRon Landry or the second coming of Jack Tatum. Those are the kinds of things that ruin your immersion experience because it's laughable. If I am playing on Rookie level or even Pro, maybe I can understand, but on All Madden, I don't want to see that nonsense. Especially on plays where it's a WR screen and he comes running in and just flattens the receiver. When do you see that? He'd probably be going low to attempt to wrap up his legs. These are the types of things that if you simply watch an NFL game, even just one quarter, you can see how players interact and tackle. These big, silly hits are not that common, but when they do happen, they should be accurately represented in the game in the right context. Not just because I decided to use the hit stick.
Completely agree that they need to fix all of this "big play/big hit" nonsense which seems to be the staple for madden, just like their NHL "simulation" (a whole different rant i can get into but am not going to)...

The thing I don't like is that the game is MADE for you to do the big hits and that's it. On higher difficulties if you take a pure tackler like Kuechley or Bowman and go for a high percentage tackle, the 4th wideout will just run over him 75% of the time. What's even worse, is that if you are in the open field with say Adrian Peterson, the other team's nickel DB will just level the lowered shoulder of AP to the point where he fumbles, ends up in that stupid "on the back" injury animation and breaks his collarbone for a season ending injury.

And even if EA made a "simulation mode/level" for madden, the big hits would still be happening all over the place, the animations and movements would still be robotic, the receivers would still be like magnets for the ball, the players would still be hunchback running all over the place, and the list goes on. These little things, no matter how "simulation/realistic" the game claims itself to be, ruin the immersion entirely to the point where it looks too unrealistic and laughable to be even taken seriously as a representation of the NFL.

Last edited by HingleMcCringleberry; 07-16-2014 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:23 PM   #93
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

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Originally Posted by HingleMcCringleberry
Completely agree that they need to fix all of this "big play/big hit" nonsense which seems to be the staple for madden, just like their NHL "simulation" (a whole different rant i can get into but am not going to)...

The thing I don't like is that the game is MADE for you to do the big hits and that's it. On higher difficulties if you take a pure tackler like Kuechley or Bowman and go for a high percentage tackle, the 4th wideout will just run over him 75% of the time. What's even worse, is that if you are in the open field with say Adrian Peterson, the other team's nickel DB will just level the lowered shoulder of AP to the point where he fumbles, ends up in that stupid "on the back" injury animation and breaks his collarbone for a season ending injury.

And even if EA made a "simulation mode/level" for madden, the big hits would still be happening all over the place, the animations and movements would still be robotic, the receivers would still be like magnets for the ball, the players would still be hunchback running all over the place, and the list goes on. These little things, no matter how "simulation/realistic" the game claims itself to be, ruin the immersion entirely to the point where it looks too unrealistic and laughable to be even taken seriously as a representation of the NFL.
This. It's to the point where you have to turn the face mask slider all the way down to see more wrap up tackles, but the guys with the big hitter trait will still do so to the more powerful backs as often anyway. Madden is highlight football. Every play, hit, catch, truck, etc has to have some kind of sizzle. That is why I appreciated the older games, because the people making them understood that not everything has to look pretty., but instead respect realism.
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Old 07-16-2014, 10:53 PM   #94
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

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Originally Posted by NicVirtue
This. It's to the point where you have to turn the face mask slider all the way down to see more wrap up tackles, but the guys with the big hitter trait will still do so to the more powerful backs as often anyway. Madden is highlight football. Every play, hit, catch, truck, etc has to have some kind of sizzle. That is why I appreciated the older games, because the people making them understood that not everything has to look pretty., but instead respect realism.
Same reason why I never play the Seahawks or 49ers. Auto hit stick for every player, every play. It's absolutely ridiculous... Nickel, dime, and quarter DB subs will completely level the lowered shoulder of a big TE or RB in an open field "one on one" nearly every time.

With all these guys they have brought in to improve the game, they should have no issues bringing in a basic High School physics teacher to teach the basic concepts of force and momentum so this stops happening...
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Old 07-16-2014, 11:36 PM   #95
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

You can still hit stick?

Sold.
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Old 07-17-2014, 03:11 AM   #96
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The MAIN thing that the Madden team needs to fix most expediently is the running animations!! This ONE fix alone will increase the immersion level. While the running animations have been improved significantly over the years, there's one thing missing, the hip movement. There's damn near NO swing in the midsection/hip area, thats the reason why, even after all of the graphics and animation improvements, the players still look stiff when running the ball.

The players entire midsection/hip area is like a concrete slab without any prominent movement or swing to it. When running, while the arms are pumping, the top half of the body moves independent from the belly button down, when the left arm comes up, the top half of the body is moving (sometimes ever so slight, depending on the speed of the run) to right, and vice versa. This was represented on the early generation consoles, PS2 and Xbox specifically, so I know it can be done. Thats where your problems are with the animations gents.
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