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Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Old 07-16-2014, 02:26 PM   #121
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by Big FN Deal
People may have rumblings of "same ole same ole" but at the end of the day if it works well and isn't a regression from what they've had before, they're satisfied. I don't see how some of the actual new additions to Madden over the years can be classified as "innovation" anyway if whatever it is doesn't work as intended and/or is a regression of what was done in the past.
But Madden already works in the general case, it works well enough for plenty of people to be happy with it, log countless hours playing online head-to-head / online team-up and spend hundreds of dollars playing Ultimate Team. People by-and-large _are_ satisfied with the game. These people who are satisfied want new ways to interact with the game in next year's version, new tools they can use to control the outcome of the game.

If WR-DB jostling is introduced with a new control mechanic accompanying it as part of the introduction of a 7-on-7 online multiplayer mode, then you'll get the average user to care, because he'll need to understand the interactions and tools to succeed when playing as a wide receiver in this new gameplay mode. On its own as a set of animations the AI performs based on ratings checks which the user can't influence in any active or meaningful way, it doesn't grab the attention of any user who doesn't frequent this forum because this user will never meaningfully interact with the refactored AI routines.

To boil it down to two sentences: with the average console video game user, the idea of sim gameplay is secondary to the notion of interactive competitive multiplayer. It is more important that a game has engaging user gameplay mechanics than it is that it is realistic with respect to things outside of the user's direct influence.
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Old 07-16-2014, 02:28 PM   #122
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake
Isn't it a failure on the marketing department if they can't market their product to reel in new and retain existing customers? A talented marketing team is suppose to be able to successfully market a simulation game, or any subtlties to casuals. A talented marketing team should be able to take "WR/DB interactions, better play calling AI, or foot planting for all 22 players on the field" market, bait and hook the casual gamer.
It's also the responsibility of marketing to create a pitch which will grab new players and retain old players.

How do you hook the casual gamer by advertising mechanics the casual gamer will never interact with on account that they are all entirely CPU-controlled? Why should the casual gamer care at all?
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Old 07-16-2014, 02:36 PM   #123
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by CM Hooe
If WR-DB jostling is introduced with a new control mechanic accompanying it as part of the introduction of a 7-on-7 online multiplayer mode....
That would be interesting to see...based solely on past performance and results, if EA tried to implement it, the feature would debut as a hot mess; but in some ways it reminds me of the year that NCAA had an online feature that allowed players to have OT match-ups instead of full games.

Online 7-on-7 would be in the wheel house of the casuals and the freestyle players and could easily be a marketable "feature" too...
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Old 07-16-2014, 02:40 PM   #124
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake
Isn't it a failure on the marketing department if they can't market their product to reel in new and retain existing customers? A talented marketing team is suppose to be able to successfully market a simulation game, or any subtlties to casuals. A talented marketing team should be able to take "WR/DB interactions, better play calling AI, or foot planting for all 22 players on the field" market, bait and hook the casual gamer.
Precisely, this notion that casuals or your average gamer couldn't care less about solid fundamentals cuts both ways, meaning there or not, all they care about is how the game plays. So the best of both worlds is to have the fundamentals there for those that actually care and have the game still accessible to those that only care how it plays.

The NFL is real football, yet sometimes Calvin Johnson and Matthew Stafford just play pitch n catch in a game. Market up those type of real life aspects of football that an authentic video game can replicate, which any gamer will find exciting and fun. That doesn't mean they'll win too many games playing that way but it can still be an enjoyable experience. That's not some trailblazing concept, it's what other tops sports games do.
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Old 07-16-2014, 02:54 PM   #125
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by CM Hooe

...[cut for to save quote space]To boil it down to two sentences: with the average console video game user, the idea of sim gameplay is secondary to the notion of interactive competitive multiplayer. It is more important that a game has engaging user gameplay mechanics than it is that it is realistic with respect to things outside of the user's direct influence.
To put it simply, I don't disagree with them making a simulation video game that's more User interactive/micromanaged on the field, it's them doing that at the expense of providing a more traditional and proven method to play the game. "Proven" by other sports sims and even by past Maddens, with The Show being the most exemplary, option, options, options.
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:00 PM   #126
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
But Madden already works in the general case, it works well enough for plenty of people to be happy with it, log countless hours playing online head-to-head / online team-up and spend hundreds of dollars playing Ultimate Team. People by-and-large _are_ satisfied with the game. These people who are satisfied want new ways to interact with the game in next year's version, new tools they can use to control the outcome of the game.

If WR-DB jostling is introduced with a new control mechanic accompanying it as part of the introduction of a 7-on-7 online multiplayer mode, then you'll get the average user to care, because he'll need to understand the interactions and tools to succeed when playing as a wide receiver in this new gameplay mode. On its own as a set of animations the AI performs based on ratings checks which the user can't influence in any active or meaningful way, it doesn't grab the attention of any user who doesn't frequent this forum because this user will never meaningfully interact with the refactored AI routines.

To boil it down to two sentences: with the average console video game user, the idea of sim gameplay is secondary to the notion of interactive competitive multiplayer. It is more important that a game has engaging user gameplay mechanics than it is that it is realistic with respect to things outside of the user's direct influence.
I agree with the majority of what you are saying, but I still think you are oversimplifying here. You mention this "casual-gamer" a lot, but I think you're missing it. Let's just throw sim and online play out of the window.

Madden is a sports video game representing the National Football League. Madden's first, and primary job, should always to be do accurately portray the NFL. And I'm not talking about simulation, not even close. EA is part of the way there with how astonishing the game looks, especially in stills. But where they fall off is the mechanics. Things like WR/DB interactions, realistic player movements, foot-planting/true step for 22 players should be applied before anything else, because that is Madden's job. And yes head-to-head and MUT dominate the money EA takes in, but even this so-called "casual-gamer" you mention is no neanderthal and I'm sure this well-needed upgrades to the game would not go unappreciated from them.
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:09 PM   #127
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
It's also the responsibility of marketing to create a pitch which will grab new players and retain old players.

How do you hook the casual gamer by advertising mechanics the casual gamer will never interact with on account that they are all entirely CPU-controlled? Why should the casual gamer care at all?


That's on the shoulders of the marketing department. If they have degrees in marketing, they should have the necessary training, tools, mental capacity to do just that. If the existing team can't do it, put together a new breed to do exactly that. It's all mental. The mind is powerful tool. Advertising is powerful tool. An ingenious captivating play on words can sell.

Team leader gathers all members from the marketing department and says exactly what you wrote (or something to that extent)... "It's [our] responsibility of marketing to create a pitch which will grab new players and retain old players. How do you hook the casual gamer by advertising mechanics the casual gamer will never interact with on account that they are all entirely CPU-controlled? Why should the casual gamer care at all?"

One way to look at it. There's plenty more that some marketing department can conjure up. Mini games sells right? Online high scores sells right? Some type of reward would sell right? Feed the gamer's ego. This year would have been the perfect timing to capitalize on Richard Sherman's position, to get WR/DB interaction properly implemented considering what happened in the Superbowl.

Replicate the final play in the Superbowl
Lace up as Richard Sherman

Change the outcome of the Superbowl
Lace up as Crabtree

WR/DB interaction mini game. Just as Madden 15 will have the gaunlet, you can have a high scoring mini game with just a wide receiver going up against a defensive back. This is only one example of many that marketing can pitch. Extrapolate the whole process (it doesn't have to be mini games, but just something) and apply to other simulation elements. Everything is possible. You can market simulation gameplay elements to casual gamers. You can do the same thing with better AI, and True Step, etc.
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:16 PM   #128
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by Danimal
Why would this lessen any doubts I have? A GC and a developer making promises, that is par for the course. I actually think Clint is a straight shooter and I think they intend to work on these thing, but sometimes things are said with all the intentions in the world but the end results are not equal to the vision.

I can say I want 6 pack abs and I work out everyday but they aren't there yet.
You need to hire a marketing team for your abs. You don't know it yet, but with the right marketing team, you've got a 6 pack or better yet an 8 pack.
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Last edited by strawberryshortcake; 07-16-2014 at 03:20 PM.
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