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Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Old 07-17-2014, 01:04 PM   #193
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by bucky60
Then it will never have the quality of those other sports video games. Unless those other games take steps backwards to meet madden. I'm actually glad they did say sim. It at least gives some hop that Madden might reach the level of those other sports games.
Why do you want false hope?
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:05 PM   #194
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by jpdavis82
You're not getting wr/DB interactions YET but they're already working on them.


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Maybe they are. Maybe they arent. I dont believe a Dev until they show me its in the game. **** Ian showed us WR animations that never made it in the game.
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:08 PM   #195
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by aholbert32
Maybe they are. Maybe they arent. I dont believe a Dev until they show me its in the game. **** Ian showed us WR animations that never made it in the game.
So what do you expect out of Madden 15 then?


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Old 07-17-2014, 01:09 PM   #196
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by aholbert32
Why do you want false hope?
Because with the exclusive, it's the only hope I have.
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:12 PM   #197
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by aholbert32
Look, I dont give a **** about my argument. The game is what it is. You know its not a simulation. They know its not a simulation and no matter how much the devs talk about that being a goal....we all know its BS.

I've been playing this game for 20 plus years. Thats probably 5 or 6 dev teams. I bet I can find articles or posts where each lead developer whether its David Ortiz or Ian or this new team talks about making the game more realistic and sim like....and none of them do it.

So after a while it becomes fool me once, shame on you. When I buy Madden, I know what I'm getting and I know what I'm not getting. I'm not getting accurate penalties. I'm not getting WR/DB interaction. I'm not getting hyper realistic sim stats. I know that in order to make the game even close to a simulation, I have to adjust ratings and slider tweak and it still wont be that close to a sim.

But to complain about them using "simulation" as a marketing tool is silly. We know why they use it and we know that the game is never going to reach that standard for multiple reasons.
I really respect this opinion and what I'll ask is, even if all this is true, is there anything wrong with calling Tiburon to task on those claims and hoping they deliver? I post about Madden more so as a vice, then some agent for change, because I'm passionate about football and football video games, so strictly from a internet forum POV, they're repeated stated goal is a part of the discussion. I want to emphasize "discussion" because that's all any of this is, making points and counterpoints, etc but at the end of the day the game is what it is.
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:15 PM   #198
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by Big FN Deal
In some post in another thread there was someone that stated something like they knew people that wouldn't play NBA2k because the controls schemes was too complicated, even though those games have tutorials. Now you're belaboring the point that more interactive control schemes where the User is able to micro manage is a priority for a video game over the AI handling it. What is evident is that there is no one "right" way to institute a control scheme in a simulation video game because gamers have varying preferences for how to play/interact with games, that can change, so again, the best approach to control schemes are options.
Complex and intuitive are two very different adjectives. Part of NBA 2K's problem as well is that they've changed their dribbling control scheme several times over the past few iterations, artificially increasing the learning curve for veterans of the series; consistency helps.

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The issue or perplexing thing unique to Madden, in comparison to other top sports sim video games, is that even though it's intended to be a simulation video game, a FACT, that you often try to talk around or dismiss, Tiburon often seems to attempt to supersede or bypass applicable real world elements instead of replicating/emulating them, even when those elements have already been replicated/emulated well, by general consensus, in other games. That's poor design for creating a simulation video game, may make perfect sense for some other kind of video game but for a simulation video game, it's counter productive.
Tiburon is making a video game. Realism gets checked at the door as a given, regardless what anyone in marketing says. "Simulation" and "video game" are in-fact in opposition to each other; a simulation doesn't allow for user interference whatsoever, whereas a video game is intentionally designed for the user to influence the result. Madden allows user control and is heavily designed around the idea of user control, ergo it is a video game. Personally, I have no interest in buying a simulation.

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Using your position that "it's a video game first" then Madden could just ignore football all together too and spend an entire dev cycle creating a Racing Kart mode, with full NFL/NFLPA licenses/players. That's good general video game design because people that like Mario Kart would never buy Madden for football but it's quite ridiculous considering Madden is a football simulation video game, so again, can we please have a reasonable discussion.
It worked for Mortal Kombat: Armageddon, so you're not entirely wrong despite your obviously flippant intentions.
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:19 PM   #199
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by Big FN Deal
I really respect this opinion and what I'll ask is, even if all this is true, is there anything wrong with calling Tiburon to task on those claims and hoping they deliver? I post about Madden more so as a vice, then some agent for change, because I'm passionate about football and football video games, so strictly from a internet forum POV, they're repeated stated goal is a part of the discussion. I want to emphasize "discussion" because that's all any of this is, making points and counterpoints, etc but at the end of the day the game is what it is.
Dont get me wrong. I respect your position and have no issue with you calling Tiburion to task for things that should be in the game. My point is we all know EA is lying about wanting it to be a sim (at least to the level that we want it to be a sim). We've had almost 10 years of evidence that this is a lie. 10 years of them calling it a sim and taking very few steps to reach that stated goal. So to expect them to come through on a promise that they always fail to keep is a bit unrealistic.

So I would prefer that EA stops lying to me. Market Madden as NFL video game with some realistic elements. Its not a sim and they dont want it to be a sim.
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:27 PM   #200
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by CM Hooe
Tiburon is making a video game. Realism gets checked at the door as a given, regardless what anyone in marketing says. "Simulation" and "video game" are in-fact in opposition to each other; a simulation doesn't allow for user interference whatsoever
This is so far off. You either don't understand simulations or you're just trying to be disingenuous. I wrote complex simulations/debuggers (along with compilers, linkers) for a living for many years out of college, before going into system admin, networking admin and business ERP software. These were simulations of hardware that physically didn't exist yet. OS and Application programmers were still able to design/code/and test on our simulations. So first, there is a lot of input into what you do with the simulation. What programs you write to run on the simulation.

Then there is also a difference between simulation and game simulation. Flight simulators have a ton of input from the user. Sports games, built on realism, sometimes called simulation because there goal is to emulate reasonable realism, have a ton of user input.

But then, I've come to expect extreme views from someone that thinks "sci fi" is the same as "sports".

Last edited by bucky60; 07-17-2014 at 01:31 PM.
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