Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

[NicVirtue]

Blah. I've heard that too many times to remember. "Turning Point". It's gotten to the point where it's a mythical creature to me. I'll believe it when I see it, not when it's trying to be sold to me by an employee.

[CM Hooe]

Whether it's the "turning point" for the series or not doesn't really matter to whether Madden 15 on its own will be a remembered as a consensus good game.

Personally, I've seen enough already to know I will enjoy the game and get plenty out of it, just like I did with Madden 13 and Madden 25. So whether it ultimately is the "turning point" doesn't really matter to me.

I can certainly understand the facta-non-verba position of those who have been disappointed with Madden in the past, however. It's on Tiburon to actually deliver a game these people want to play, and not just with marketing.

[C the Lyte]

Quote: Originally Posted by GiantBlue76

Hard not to get irritated with a statement like this. There are very few "h8rs" here. Everyone has differing opinions of the game. Some are staunch enthusiasts like JP, others are severely disappointed like Big, and then there are those that have opinions that fall on each side. Everyone wants a better game. Some of us who have been playing for a long time and are a bit older have experienced lots of great football games over the years so our expectations are higher. We want to see what we once had and then some. Right now, Madden is not there yet for some of us. That doesn't mean we don't want it to be or that it won't ever get there. Back on point, like others have said, seeing is believing. If we all had a nickel for every time a developer told us this same stuff, we'd all be living on a beach. No one knows what will happen. Rex could quit tomorrow or the team could drastically change. I want them to show all of these new animations and other items as well. Quite frankly, I don't believe anything whenever they say it and I have good reason. Most of the time, it doesn't show up in the game, or if it does, it doesn't work right. Telling people when your word is basically worthless does very little to help your cause. Let's see a display of all of this. Madden sounds great EVERY year. It's when the game actually starts moving and you play it when you realize that it's not at all what you were hoping for.

Great post. It's all part of the Madden/Tiburon marketing playbook. The only thing that changes in these statements and blogs are the names attached to them. Everything else is the same on a year to year basis. With these guys, seeing is believing.


I joined OS 5 years ago b/c I thought the interaction b/t the devs and users was a great thing and a huge step forward in video gaming football. 5 years later, and it seems 80 % of the words out of Rex now are the same out of Ian's 5 years ago.

[jpdavis82]

Quote: Originally Posted by C the Lyte

Great post. It's all part of the Madden/Tiburon marketing playbook. The only thing that changes in these statements and blogs are the names attached to them. Everything else is the same on a year to year basis. With these guys, seeing is believing. I joined OS 5 years ago b/c I thought the interaction b/t the devs and users was a great thing and a huge step forward in video gaming football. 5 years later, and it seems 80 % of the words out of Rex now are the same out of Ian's 5 years ago.

Ian talked about WR/DB interactions, O/D line interactions, true player motion and foot planting, realistic penalties, QB inaccuracy, Etc....???

Please show me where that is because I know Ian talked about in M11, the illusion of cutting left & right.

You guys have to remember too that a lot of this is coming from Cam Weber too, he has way more influence on the game than Ian had. If Ian was still there he would be below Cam in the ranks.

Ian always talked like he was making a video game about football. Rex and Cam talk like they are using football to make a video game, big difference guys!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[charter04]

At this point I don't care what they say. I hope the things he's saying are true. Until I play the game myself I won't know. I trust a couple of guys that have played it. They say it's improved. I haven't heard "turning point" from them though. Lol I played madden 13 and 25 a lot. I just overlook the issues or adjust sliders to help.

I would say people who say it's going to be mostly the same have a much better chance of being right than the ones saying its way different based on the last 8 years. I hope the later are finally right

[TTD71]

Quote: Originally Posted by C the Lyte

5 years later, and it seems 80 % of the words out of Rex now are the same out of Ian's 5 years ago.

Hmmm....maybe the intent of each sounds the same, but I'm pretty sure no one is pimping out PRO-TAK again this year, so since that was every other word out of Ian's mouth back in the run up to M'10, I have to respectfully disagree ...

I get the point though that you and several others are making, I've felt it myself for a long, long time - the annual release cycle on Madden has fallen into a terrible rut of over-promising, under-delivering and lather, rinse, repeat repetitiveness. Its hard for an older gamer like myself (been on Madden since the beginning, now 26 years ago...sheeesh, that's a looooong time) to keep seeing the same thing play out year after year, console after console and then see the same lack of progress on legacy issues and NOT believe the same thing is 100% guaranteed to happen again this year.

My good will and taking the dev's and game pimp's word for it was extinguished years ago. They have got to show me the results before I am willing to get hyped up. I am going to buy the game regardless because I will find my $60 worth of value in it - one way or another I always do - but I have no illusions of any grand plan coming together or any turning points being reached or any other marketing hype term coming true.

I would recommend to anyone that they evaluate their own $60 value threshold and purchase (or not purchase) accordingly...but if anyone is really still waiting for the legacy issues to be fixed, prepare for yet more disappointment and another annual cycle of heartbreak to follow.

[Senator Palmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by jpdavis82

Ian talked about WR/DB interactions, O/D line interactions, true player motion and foot planting, realistic penalties, QB inaccuracy, Etc....??? Please show me where that is because I know Ian talked about in M11, the illusion of cutting left & right. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-movement.html

Player Movement:

Quote:

To me, 09 reaches the perfect balance between the ultra-twitch of 08 and the un-steerable feel of last-gen. I guess the difference with me though is that I am not going to try to get on here and "sell" or "hype" our version of momentum to you - you need to see it for yourself. I realize your concerns...you don't have to plant and gather for 180 cuts, you can turn and face a direction immediately without having to curve, you can do ridiculous moves while sprinting, etc. Those have all been addressed, but some have more give than others for fun-factor. You'll see in the blog that Simon is releasing this week that a big trick to our new engine has been in actually implementing and forcing gather animations for all these situations that last year had nothing (i.e turning on a dime), but our engine allows those animations to be steered and modified procedurally based on ratings. This to me brings a much better balance between true realism while still feeling like you are in full control of the player.

QB Accuracy: if you remember, it was under Ian that ratings for deep, medium, and short QB throwing accuracy were introduced.

http://www.thegamerslab.com/communit...B-Improvements

Quote:

New QB Ratings Our next big change for the QB position was the addition of some new ratings. For countless years we've basically had Throw Power, Throw Accuracy, and Awareness as the only ratings for the QB position, so it's very hard to differentiate the players correctly and have them perform more like their real-life counterparts with just those few. For example, a superstar like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning would previously have a very high Throw Accuracy rating like a 98, well that had to be the case for a 5 yard screen or a 65 yard heave! Here are our new ratings: 1. Deep Ball Accuracy: Determines the accuracy on deep passes (streaks, deep posts, etc) 2. Medium Passing Accuracy: Determines the accuracy on medium passes (outs, corners, etc) 3. Short Passing Accuracy: Determines the accuracy on short passes (quick smash, flats, etc) 4. Throw on the Run: Creates a modifier to accuracy when the QB is throwing on the run. Every QB will take some sort of accuracy hit when throwing on the run, but a QB that has a high rating here will take a smaller hit. 5. Play Action: Determines the 'effectiveness' of Play Action for a QB, i.e. how often they can fake out or freeze the defense (which is obviously weighted against the defenders Play Recognition ratings)]

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/hu...ngs.181981031/

Quote:

It's been one of my pet peeves with football games for years: it's terribly hard to tell a difference between the QBs outside of arm strength and running speed. Will a quarterback with lower accuracy actually be off target with more throws? Donny: First off, it is a really comfortable chair. Now to your question. I think we have captured the strengths and weaknesses of each one of the quarterbacks in the league like never before for Madden NFL 10. No longer is every QB rated 80+ in throw accuracy. We now see guys covering a wider spread, rated anywhere from 50 to 99. This meant totally re-tuning the passing game, but it was something that we felt had to be done. You can see immediate differences just by taking the Dolphins into practice mode and checking them out. First, we have Chad Pennington. He is rated amongst the best QBs in the game in short and intermediate accuracy. However, he has a sub 75 rated arm (Throw Power), so you do not want to take too many chances deep with Pennington. Throwing the deep out across the field with Chad Pennington = not a bright idea in Madden NFL 10.

Wide Receiver/Defensive Back Interactions: there's a video he posted also that's still floating around. Might take a bit to find. But there was a complete blog dedicated that very thing that's no long on their website...

http://sportsgaming.wordpress.com/20...en-10-ncaa-10/

http://www.pastapadre.com/2009/03/02...b-improvements

Quote:

Second, we took a page from the FIFA team and added in the concept of ‘jostling’. Personally I am extremely stoked to have this in the game because I’ve written a design for it for 5+ years in a row…unfortunately we just never had the technology to accomplish it. The ‘jostling’ concept is a set of looping 2-man animations that can play for the WR and DB as they run downfield. The main reason that I am so big on these animations is that it really helps alleviate a balance problem that has existed in Madden for years. I’m talking about the fact that traditionally you can send a player with a 99 speed rating (regardless of his other ratings like route running, catching, etc) on a streak and easily get behind a defender in man coverage. In real life, regardless of the difference in speed, a good defensive back can use his body to keep the receiver in check… a fly route is rarely an untouched foot-race sprint to the endzone.

Offensive/Defensive Line: It was under Ian that the offensive line blocking logic was first re-written. Madden 11 was pretty much dedicated to new run blocking.

Here's the vid he posted while he was tweaking the pass rush...



Realistic Penalties: I don't think anyone has ever really taken that one on realistically.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by jpdavis82

Rex mentions that himself talking about legacy issues not being addressed will affect how the hardcore gamers see the game. He lists just about every issue left to be addressed, no other developers have done that in the past. It amazes me how everyone who has played this game so far has been really amazed, not just GC's, but literally everyone who has played it, yet those who haven't remain so skeptical. It's ok I look forward to when the game releases and reading all the reviews on here.

Yeah, I give credit where credit is due and I applaud Rex for not being timid about the existing shortcomings. I mean that too, you have gamers that won't even do that and act as if those legacy issues are blown out of proportion by Madden hatemongers. Call me easy but Rex just bought some capital with me making those statements.

Now ultimately the game will speak for itself but if this holds true;

"Finally, for many it is all about balance and challenge. If the game is properly balanced and people can get a challenging, realistic game both online or vs. the AI, the game will be perceived as one of the best in franchise history. Fans told us that Madden NFL 25 had for soft zones, the outside run game was overpowered, and it was too hard to stop offenses. We took this feedback to heart and made some changes in our development philosophy to ensure that Madden NFL 15 is balanced across the board. I believe this will keep people engaged with the game for a much longer period of time and ultimately, this game will be remembered for being one of the most balanced we have ever built."

I can try to stomach the admitted issues another year because this will demonstrate they acknowledge and are doing something about the same things we see.