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Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Old 07-15-2014, 03:34 PM   #49
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Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by jpdavis82
The final product will speak the loudest. This is a apples and oranges comparison. Ian wasnt bringing in current and former nfl players and coaches to help the devs understand how football works. They brought in Cam Newton to teach route concepts, Stevenson Sylvester and another Steeler DB whose name escapes me, to teach how they would read the QB in man & zone. When has that happened in the past?


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JP problem with above..and I'm being serious..Cam Newton is maybe not the best QB to teach route concepts..he came from a very basic college offensive system geared to his strengths (one route read run).. And has continued in the Pro Level.. Now that still isn't a bad idea but just wanted to clarify that..also how do you personally know that previous teams haven't requested the help of pro players or coaches? Listen we know ur excited and believe.. But past people have been in the same boat as you now and have drank too much of the Kool Aid and been burned myself included..just be careful it's a hard fall


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Old 07-15-2014, 03:37 PM   #50
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by jpdavis82
There's a big difference between knowing football and using that knowledge to make a game, vs knowing some things about football and knowing video games. That's the difference, Ian may have wanted to make a good football game but his knowledge of the game pales in comparison to what Cam, Rex, and Clint have.


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And yet three years in that knowledge isn't reflected in the nuances of the gameplay.

Perfect Example:



What is the middle linebacker doing here at 1:07? This is a draw play in which his player sense should have told him that it was a draw play and to attack the LOS. And that's exactly what it looks like he does, but for some reason... well, actually I know the reason -- he suddenly takes 4-5 steps in reverse and allows himself to be blocked by the fullback. Now it's been this way since Cam and this new team took over and was a band-aide put in so that the draw play would actually work.

The linebackers didn't do that in Madden 10 btw...

Now why hasn't something like this been addressed? Why is it that this team with all this football knowledge on hand you still can't tell who the force or cutback defender is on most of these run plays (as LBz pointed out)?

I keep hearing that the game has gap assignments, yet the linebackers don't press the LOS unless it's a man coverage call or a blitz... i.e. they aren't actually reading anything despite this player sense claim.

I heard a video blogger point out on an outside run how the edge was being set, yet it was the same stick and hold animation as always. The defender wasn't playing with his outside arm free and there was virtually no movement. It looked like an improved version of the win/loss dice roll that's always dictated line play.

Now this is basic football stuff now and a lot of it from what the vids I've seen looks the same.
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Old 07-15-2014, 03:41 PM   #51
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Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by jpdavis82
Ok they're not better than what we had, they're in a completely different league. Clint answers every question straightforward and this team isn't just spinning their wheels. They actually have a real plan and vision and people will see that for themselves soon enough.


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Lol. You need to be getting a check from EA. We'll see if they're "in a completely different league". So far the proof are the games. Madden 10 was better than Madden 25 or the same in most legacy area's. Playing football doesn't make you an expert at making a great football game. Your starting to sound like some of the 2k fanboys in your love for this madden team. I like all those guys too but, they haven't proven anything to me yet. I hope Madden 15 and on, blow me away. I really do.

And by the way I'm not trying pick on you. You seem like a cool dude. I just don't know why you seem so sure everything is going to change that easy from the way it's been for 8 years.

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Old 07-15-2014, 03:47 PM   #52
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by jpdavis82
Ok they're not better than what we had, they're in a completely different league. Clint answers every question straightforward and this team isn't just spinning their wheels. They actually have a real plan and vision and people will see that for themselves soon enough.


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Yep, Ian didn't want realistic game play or answer question straightforward?

Just a quick search of Ian post here and we have:

Quote:
Good news? You and I feel exactly the same way. I want ultra realistic gameplay, better physics, more dynamic and varied animations, learning AI, and all that stuff. In fact, this year we added many different items under that umbrella (whether you appreciate/notice them or not).

Bad news? None of it happens overnight. In fact, realtime physics is very likely a long way out. I don't think you need to incessantly bag on Madden in post after post after post and how it doesn't meet your expectations from here on. You've gotten my ear now, and luckily, we both agree what Madden should represent. But honestly, your expectations probably won't be met for a while. So I'm not sure where to go from here.
Post #273
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2039784305

Both myths busted in one of his first post from July 09.

Also, way back when there was a Supporters Only forum on this site and Ian used to talk about making a more realistic game a lot there. That forum has since went kaput, so there's no way to search for those post. Anyway, my point is there's no need to go around trashing someone and spewing false truths when you're showing that you don't know.

Lastly, we get it, jp. The "Holy Trinity" is headed in the right direction... not that any of us have seen that yet, but apparently these guys crap video game/football gold and can do not wrong. But, when the game comes out and it still has the same legacy issues that it's had pre-Ian, then what's next? I know, "wait to next year", then next year it's "they're on a three year plan". It's a vicious cycle... And like Roadman said, the biggest year-to-year leap that Madden has had as been under Ian, so until the new guys make a bigger leap, then I will continue to doubt them.
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Old 07-15-2014, 03:57 PM   #53
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdavis82
The final product will speak the loudest. This is a apples and oranges comparison. Ian wasnt bringing in current and former nfl players and coaches to help the devs understand how football works. They brought in Cam Newton to teach route concepts, Stevenson Sylvester and another Steeler DB whose name escapes me, to teach how they would read the QB in man & zone. When has that happened in the past?


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Somebody with a little longer memory can help me out, but I remember Russ Grimm coming in one year to look at some of the offensive line stuff, I remember Mike Smith of the Falcons coming in and talking to them about defensive alignments... there were a couple more from different years that I'm drawing a blank on, and I'm not even talking about the days of PS2 but the point is, it's never been uncommon for NFL coaches to be consulted at various points in this game's history.
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Old 07-15-2014, 04:00 PM   #54
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by jpdavis82
http://reviewfix.com/2014/07/review-...alk-madden-15/

Rex calls 15 the Turning Point himself
It's this kind of optimism that keeps the big wigs driving jaguars and bentleys!!!

Heard it all before EA.....
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Old 07-15-2014, 04:12 PM   #55
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by Senator Palmer
Somebody with a little longer memory can help me out there, but I remember Russ Grimm coming in one year to look at some of the offensive line stuff, I remember Mike Smith of the Falcons coming in and talking to them about defensive alignments... there were a couple more from different years that I'm drawing a blank on, and I'm not even talking about the days of PS2 but the point is, it's never been uncommon for NFL coaches to be consulted at various points in this game's history.
To this point, none of that means anything to me, quite simply because these guys are not the actual programmer who has to write the code. Maybe I'm just biased, but to me, the real magic is created by the programmer. Great designs and ideas are paramount, but they never see the light of day without the guy sitting at the keyboard implementing it. From what I have seen from Tiburon, they struggle massively with implementation. Everything seems too hard - sometimes by their own admission. I have my own opinions about the ability level of the programmers which was formed through lots of conversations with guys who have been there and seen it first hand. This is coupled with what I've seen in the game. I tend to believe them over others, but that's just my choice.

Enough time has passed now that people forget about some of the great things that were implemented by other companies other than Tiburon when it comes to football gaming. Most of these things were done first and better, even after Tiburon claimed "it can't be done" (i.e, NFL Gameday in the 90s). I guess what I am trying to say is that you can have Frank Lloyd Wright designing your house, but if you hire a contractor who's never held a hammer, what good is the design?
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Old 07-15-2014, 05:04 PM   #56
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Re: Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

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Originally Posted by GiantBlue76
To this point, none of that means anything to me, quite simply because these guys are not the actual programmer who has to write the code. Maybe I'm just biased, but to me, the real magic is created by the programmer. Great designs and ideas are paramount, but they never see the light of day without the guy sitting at the keyboard implementing it. From what I have seen from Tiburon, they struggle massively with implementation. Everything seems too hard - sometimes by their own admission. I have my own opinions about the ability level of the programmers which was formed through lots of conversations with guys who have been there and seen it first hand. This is coupled with what I've seen in the game. I tend to believe them over others, but that's just my choice.

Enough time has passed now that people forget about some of the great things that were implemented by other companies other than Tiburon when it comes to football gaming. Most of these things were done first and better, even after Tiburon claimed "it can't be done" (i.e, NFL Gameday in the 90s). I guess what I am trying to say is that you can have Frank Lloyd Wright designing your house, but if you hire a contractor who's never held a hammer, what good is the design?

Great post and point. You can the best game designer in the world working on Madden, but it won't make a difference unless the programmers are on the same page or can accomplish the task at hand. Many people have ideas on how to fix or improve the game, but a few amount of people actually make those changes to the game.

Side Note. Not many gamers or people for the matter understand the process of game development. You can have the best ideas in the world but to actually understanding how to implement those ideas can be really hard at times and takes a whole lot of time to achieve. Game programmers aren't writing thousands or hundreds of lines of code a day; it's a small steps, small amount of code which leads to incremental gains every day until an end goal.

None the less I don't it's a matter of the programmers on the team, programmers follow a designer's ideas and vision and if the designers don't want to focus on legacy issues and just want to add new things on top; it's not the programmers fault rather than a leadership fault.

Many of us would rather have Madden focus on the basic of football which are fixing animations, character movement and locomotion, physics and other core game play features. But to EA and the designers of the team, new game play features like a tackling cone are the main focus because they are marketable changes that sell to the consumer audience which represent 90% of Madden players.
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