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Let's talk about player movement!

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Old 07-20-2014, 03:23 AM   #9
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Re: Let's talk about player movement!

First off, I have a Tester roster - on the roster the Raiders team has all player ratings at 99....I have been playing the Jaguars.....

With Run Block slider @ 50 Jones-Drew averaged 11.8 yards per carry.
With Run Block slider @ 1 Jones-Drew averaged 12.6 yards per carry.
with Run Block slider @ 100 Jones-Drew averaged 4.4 yards per carry.

any ideas how sliders work? So it seems from this the higher the slider the more it reduces the player's ratings so it brings them down overall...But from about thr 50 to 1 slider rating, at least for run blocking, the blocking is not negatively effected....As if the sliders cause higher ratings to drop the higher the slider is?

Thus I can see this being useful online as it would make the jaguars worth using against the Seahawks, and really it is all about player ability at All-pro than anything else....But you get more computer assistance, negatively or positively as needed the higher a slider goes, at least for run blocking, in relation to the rating(s) the slider is effecting?

Conclusion - there is no such thing as a set of sliders to make a game overall more reealistic, they merely adjust ratings to make teams more even based on their level of disproportionate player quality.....Unless maybe you set all sliders to 1, and with 1 being the sole modifier, 1 time anything is the same number you multiplied by...thus true ratings are used?
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Old 07-20-2014, 04:20 AM   #10
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Re: Let's talk about player movement!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S
First off, I have a Tester roster - on the roster the Raiders team has all player ratings at 99....I have been playing the Jaguars.....

With Run Block slider @ 50 Jones-Drew averaged 11.8 yards per carry.
With Run Block slider @ 1 Jones-Drew averaged 12.6 yards per carry.
with Run Block slider @ 100 Jones-Drew averaged 4.4 yards per carry.

any ideas how sliders work? So it seems from this the higher the slider the more it reduces the player's ratings so it brings them down overall...But from about thr 50 to 1 slider rating, at least for run blocking, the blocking is not negatively effected....As if the sliders cause higher ratings to drop the higher the slider is?

Thus I can see this being useful online as it would make the jaguars worth using against the Seahawks, and really it is all about player ability at All-pro than anything else....But you get more computer assistance, negatively or positively as needed the higher a slider goes, at least for run blocking, in relation to the rating(s) the slider is effecting?

Conclusion - there is no such thing as a set of sliders to make a game overall more reealistic, they merely adjust ratings to make teams more even based on their level of disproportionate player quality.....Unless maybe you set all sliders to 1, and with 1 being the sole modifier, 1 time anything is the same number you multiplied by...thus true ratings are used?
Are you suggesting that ratings, not sliders, play the largest role in determining how accurate the gameplay is and how realistic said gameplay will be?
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Old 07-20-2014, 04:48 AM   #11
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Re: Let's talk about player movement!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCEBB2001
Are you suggesting that ratings, not sliders, play the largest role in determining how accurate the gameplay is and how realistic said gameplay will be?
I believe the higher the slider rating the greater affect on ratings the computer applies..either positively or negatively to balance the particular area the slider effects. Thus why my 99 rated players on the Raiders, specifically the OL, with a run block of 100 averaged 7.0 yads a carry compared to 11 to 12.6 yards per carry when the run blk slider was set at 50 or lower. cause the computer was npt affecting ratings in either way to balance the paying field, but just let ratings play unmodified.
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Old 07-20-2014, 05:04 AM   #12
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Re: Let's talk about player movement!

What I have done now is set all sliders for CPU to 1, except for the special team sliders, and I am running the broncos v broncos and I am seeing amazing game play...1 manning is at 90% cmp rating, yes, too high, but the opposing manning is at 60%...

RB Ball for both sides is averaging abour 5 yds a carry...
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Old 07-20-2014, 05:20 AM   #13
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Re: Let's talk about player movement!

Anyone ever consider that the length of the field may not be 100% proportional to the size and strides of the player? Maybe that's what throwing off all these times speeds
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Old 07-20-2014, 08:23 AM   #14
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Re: Let's talk about player movement!

This is one of the many locomotion issues and I remember we had a great thread a few years back about this which talked all about acceleration/de-celeration.

Hopefully Madden will finally get the locomotion issue resolved for M16. There are many factors that go into a locomotion overhaul and I have listed them below. All of these things must be fixed for locomotion to look and feel real.

1. Running animations- something has always been way off with the running animations themselves since Madden 06'. Players run upright, there is very little movement in their upper body and their legs do not seem to churn in a realistic way. They also appear to only have 1 or 2 running animations. They need a variety for all different kinds of body types. (This would be huge for the immersion factor)

2. Acceleration/De-Celeration- This is a huge part of any sports game and it differentiates the athletes and also helps improve realism on the field. Right now players unrealistically get speed bursts to get them back in the play. I am assuming this is built in the code to try and cover broken logic that would allow for way to much offense.

3. Transition Steps- This appears to be a glaring weakness in Maddens system and it probably ties to the code issue I mentioned above. Right now players will snap and turn in all different directions to catch up with a play. In real life players need plant, swivel their hips and pivot. Right now in Madden, their bodies just snap into a position that allows them to be in better position for the play.

4. Foot Planting- This is another key part of locomotion and the Madden team has yet to fix this. Even with true step for ball carriers the foot planting is still not right (although better). You can still see the feet almost hover and will slide and warp, just not on the scale that it has before.

I will say I am a bit surprised that the Madden team hasn't resolved this by now. If there is anything they could do to make Madden look and feel fresh it is player movement and animations (in general). If these two things were overhauled Madden would undoubtedly look like a whole new game (engine) and the SIM experience would increase 100X.

Last edited by ch46647; 07-20-2014 at 08:27 AM.
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Old 07-20-2014, 09:08 AM   #15
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Re: Let's talk about player movement!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaymeeAwesome
Anyone ever consider that the length of the field may not be 100% proportional to the size and strides of the player? Maybe that's what throwing off all these times speeds
I think I hear you!

I have always liked the current speed compared to Madden 10's slow sim style but never enjoyed the reality of this very topic: players cover too much ground too quickly.

I used Kyle Rouldolph as a case study and found the following regarding player size
: field size.

At 6'6" Rudolph appears (captured flat and extended) on the ground) a helmet longer than the distance of five yards: In reality, 5 yards is equivalent to 15ft.

Caption: please consider the revisions to my statement above: Rudolph is actually about half the distance of five yards as shown here.

Spoiler


If we break this down to inches we get a better picture of where Rudolph fits on the field and where he should be adjusted to fit.

Rudolph measures in at 78inches which is equivalent to 2.167 yards.

180 inches is equivalent to 5 yards.

Rudolph would appear the same length as 2 yards on a real life football field but in Madden a single yard is measured poignantly as the length of a wide receivers pre-snap release stance.

A yard in Madden is half a yard in reality or half and some change to be technical.

Caption
Spoiler


A single release stride from a receiver in Madden can cover 1.5 - 2 yards!

A WR from reality in the Madden release stance would have his lead foot at about half a yard and from there he would not have much burst out of that lean stannce to be ablr to cover 1.5 - 2 yads esp. considering route concepts that require fluidity

*Try covering as much ground as a Madden WR over a ten yard distance and then try it on multiple route tangents and you will experience the same awkwarsness we see in Madden!

What is astonishing is that a very slow gamespeed wil not shorten these strides: they are hard coded into the animation library.

We are left in a predicament here with two sound optoptions and many radical other options for plan C.

First, you could increase the yard marker to reflect true relationship to player size and NFL field size.

Second, you could shorten player strides and player size.

Beyond #2, the solutions become radical. Ideally, the field should represent the true distance in respect to player size and stride.

I used to think players cover too much ground too quickly but now I understand this universally that they cover too much gtound in general!

This is not a speed and acceleration issue but a size and proportion issue: player size and yard marker distancdistances need to be appropriated.

Should the neccessary yard markers and player models and player strides be appropriated: Madden as we know it would change distinctly (by leaps and bounds!) in respect to gameplay.


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Last edited by hanzsomehanz; 07-20-2014 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 07-20-2014, 09:12 AM   #16
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Re: Let's talk about player movement!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanzsomehanz
I think I hear you!

I have always liked the current speed compared to Madden 10's slow sim style but never enjoyed the reality of this very topic: players cover too much ground too quickly.

I used Kyle Rouldolph as a case study and found the following regarding player size
: field size.

At 6'6" Rudolph appears (captured flat and extended) on the ground) a helmet longer than the distance of five yards: In reality, 5 yards is equivalent to 15ft.

If we break thia down to inches we get a better picture of where Rudolph fits on the field and where he should be adjusted to fit.

Rudolph measures in at 78inches which is equivalent to 2.167 yards.

180 inches is equivalent to 5 yards.

Rudolph would appear the same length as 2 yards on a real life football field but in Madden a single yard is measured poignantly as the length of a wide receivers pre-snap release stance.

A yard in Madden is half a yard in reality or half and some change to be technical.

A single release stride from a receiver in Madden can cover 1.5 - 2 yards!

A WR from reality in the Madden release stance would have his lead foot at about half a yard and from there he would not have much burst out of that lean stannce to be ablr to cover 1.5 - 2 yads esp. considering route concepts that require fluidity

*Try covering as much ground as a Madden WR over a ten yard distance and then try it on multiple route tangents and you will experience the same awkwarsness we see in Madden!

What is astonishing is that a very slow gamespeed wil not shorten these strides: they are hard coded into the animation library.

We are left in a predicament here with two sound optoptions and many radical other options for plan C.

First, you could increase the yard marker to reflect true relationship to player size and NFL field size.

Second, you could shorten player strides and player size.

Beyond #2, the solutions become radical. Ideally, the field should represent the true distance in respect to player size and stride.

I used to think players cover too much ground too quickly but now I understand this universally that they cover too much gtound in general!

This is not a speed and acceleration issue but a size and proportion issue: player size and yard marker distancdistances need to be appropriated.

Should the neccessary yard markers and player models and player strides be appropriated: Madden as we know it would change distinctly (by leaps and bounds!) in respect to gameplay.


Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk

Can someone plug in these observations into the speed and acceleration calculations and see if we can prove that those ratings are accurate and it's the field size?
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