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Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

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Old 08-02-2014, 05:03 AM   #441
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdavis82
So Phil Frazier and Brian Murray are the same now? Lol
Nobody said that. He said they said the same thing about wanting the NFL to (in the future) take presentation cues from Madden, which they did.

Quote:
Murray actually has the credentials to pull it off. Brian was the senior cinematographer of NFL films, he knows the nfl in a way that Phil never did. To compare the two is an insult to Brian.
I'm unclear as to why you can't make your point without putting down the old team.
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Old 08-02-2014, 05:33 AM   #442
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

Presentation? I watched (could not hear the audio) when JAX QB, Chad Henne came onto the field. Visually there was nothing special. No player stats pop-up of stats from last season or (if in CFM week #2) stats from week #1. Looking for In-Depth Presentation that builds on itself in CFM.

Based on that, I take it that non-High Profiled QB's will get a generic entrance?

Halftime is vague, saying certain players name(s), but just saying the team(s) name when a play was made.
This does not bode well for CFM as you get into your 'chise and the new players enter into the league and become the faces of the league.

Where are the Scores & News from around the League? NCAA 13 & 14 had this without Highlights & done well I thought.

It does not sit well with me the Players Injuries are not mentioned During Opening Audio. I would think it would be in the area of Keys to the game & the Injured Player(s) replacement(s). I can do a walk through on how it should be done as per TV broadcast.

I don't know what we the consumers can do, as the suggestions from the wish-list are filled with great ideas across the board.
EA pointed out, based on their own research, that Offline/Franchise/CFM is the preference of those who purchase Madden. I have no idea why then the Mode is not more in-depth than it is?

This is not about Game-play, we all are encouraged at what we see. Yeah, I read the concerns about the CPU not fully utilizing all the new stuff on Defense, Offense & Practice/XP for the CPU Players. We'll see when OS'ers get their hands on the game.

It's still a wait and see when the CFM News is revealed. My Expectation are high, I won't lower them. 8 Man Practice Squad, 46 Man Game-Day Roster (NFL Head Coach 09 had this), Injuries (Wear & Tear), Off-Season/Free Agency/NFL Draft/Hall of Fame etc etc. etc.

IF my expectations are not met, then I'll just wait for Madden 15 to be patched (always needs a patch or two) & post in the Madden 16 Wish-List again.


I'm still playing Madden 25 & the MLB The Show 14 on the PS4, I enjoy it.

Last edited by Step2001; 08-02-2014 at 05:55 AM.
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Old 08-02-2014, 08:48 AM   #443
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

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Originally Posted by SmashMan
Nobody said that. He said they said the same thing about wanting the NFL to (in the future) take presentation cues from Madden, which they did.



I'm unclear as to why you can't make your point without putting down the old team.
The bottom line is the previous teams failed. Everyone wants to bring up the failures of Madden in the past ad nausea but someone was at fault. This team has to surpass what they did in a BIG way. This team will be judged on their delivery of their promises, the previous teams did not deliver.
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Old 08-02-2014, 10:38 AM   #444
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdavis82
So Phil Frazier and Brian Murray are the same now? Lol
That's not what I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdavis82
Murray actually has the credentials to pull it off. Brian was the senior cinematographer of NFL films, he knows the nfl in a way that Phil never did. To compare the two is an insult to Brian. Brian wants to deliver an experience that is like a perfect mix of broadcast and being at the game in person. He talks about shooting the game in the same way he would and at the same time, having the cameras follow the action in a way that resonates with what people see on Sundays. One example he gave was the camera used to follow the ball from the beginning of the play vs now, they pick the camera angle based on where the ball ends. He said the old way didn't make sense and was nothing like what you see on TV. This is a quote from one interview with Brian.

Murray: You have to respect the fans and [most] of them, see it from a couch or a chair on a Sunday. You have to respect the broadcast. If you put the disk in and someone saw just an NFL films version of it, it would resonate, but they would miss something. So we had to do a hybrid. We did camera angles and editing and pacing from a cinematic style that I directed, but you also have to respect the broadcasts.
As far as audio goes, it's twofold. You're in the world like you're at the game. You want to hear if I'm Steeler's and its third quarter, I want to hear "Oh Mama" from Styx. I need to hear that to feel like I'm actually at the game. Or you're the Patriots and you just scored a touchdown, you want those muskets going off as you kick.
The confusion is that there is another wall there. You're also kind of watching the broadcast. We had to balance what is actually happening in the world, what you would hear if you were there, and what you would hear in the broadcast: the sweeping music, commentary, halftime shows. It's a balance and obviously audio is huge for us. We have an original composer this year, Mark Petrie, and he's absolutely amazing. Me and my group would give him a template of what we're looking for, anything. 'Well I want daft punk with m83 meets dark knight' and you cram them together and you work it out. That's the way were telling the audio stories.


I'm not saying he will pull it off but he has the knowledge and connections with the NFL to make it happen.
Knowledge and credentials are great. But application and execution is the main point, and if you can't do that it means nothing.

Both Michael Young and Brian Murray have strong NFL shooting credentials. Yet, the outcome is a camera design that is in opposition to the very principles they know are employed when shooting an NFL game.

Two excellent points were made earlier in this thread; I believe Sage brought up that there is no way someone like Brian Murray would've intended to shoot the game like this considering his knowledge, and that the issues likely fall on the in-seat developers. I can certainly see such a scenario.

CM Hooe also made an equally cogent point; with Brian Murray's knowledge of shooting accuracy, it's very likely that this rendition is being done on purpose to show off the graphics. That wouldn't surprise me either.

The problem I have is with balance, and that's always the problem with this game. I can deal with them taking a little bit of artistic license if they just feel the need to, fine, whatever. But why does that have to outweigh sim? Why can't it be 75% sim shooting, and 25% artistic shooting? I want 100% sim, but at least that would be better than just trying to be nearly 100% experimental with the shooting. The most critically acclaimed sports games on the planet aren't trying to be experimental, so why is Madden?
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Old 08-02-2014, 10:45 AM   #445
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdavis82
The bottom line is the previous teams failed. Everyone wants to bring up the failures of Madden in the past ad nausea but someone was at fault. This team has to surpass what they did in a BIG way. This team will be judged on their delivery of their promises, the previous teams did not deliver.
What you're refusing to consider is that the reason the presentation is still having problems is because many of the people from the so-called "old team" are actually still on the so-called "new team". You can bring in all the new leadership you want, but the programmers are ultimately the ones who make or break a game and those guys have been there for a very long time and aren't likely to be leaving any time soon.
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Old 08-02-2014, 11:10 AM   #446
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

Personally I hate the hybrid presentation approach. I'd rather it be broadcast for reg games, and the on field experience for superstar/coach modes. That hybrid approach is just corny to me. Or just give us the option for people who like on field, people who like broadcast give that to us.
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Old 08-02-2014, 11:20 AM   #447
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdavis82
So Phil Frazier and Brian Murray are the same now? Lol

Murray actually has the credentials to pull it off. Brian was the senior cinematographer of NFL films, he knows the nfl in a way that Phil never did. To compare the two is an insult to Brian. Brian wants to deliver an experience that is like a perfect mix of broadcast and being at the game in person. He talks about shooting the game in the same way he would and at the same time, having the cameras follow the action in a way that resonates with what people see on Sundays. One example he gave was the camera used to follow the ball from the beginning of the play vs now, they pick the camera angle based on where the ball ends. He said the old way didn't make sense and was nothing like what you see on TV. This is a quote from one interview with Brian.

Murray: You have to respect the fans and [most] of them, see it from a couch or a chair on a Sunday. You have to respect the broadcast. If you put the disk in and someone saw just an NFL films version of it, it would resonate, but they would miss something. So we had to do a hybrid. We did camera angles and editing and pacing from a cinematic style that I directed, but you also have to respect the broadcasts.
As far as audio goes, it's twofold. You're in the world like you're at the game. You want to hear if I'm Steeler's and its third quarter, I want to hear "Oh Mama" from Styx. I need to hear that to feel like I'm actually at the game. Or you're the Patriots and you just scored a touchdown, you want those muskets going off as you kick.
The confusion is that there is another wall there. You're also kind of watching the broadcast. We had to balance what is actually happening in the world, what you would hear if you were there, and what you would hear in the broadcast: the sweeping music, commentary, halftime shows. It's a balance and obviously audio is huge for us. We have an original composer this year, Mark Petrie, and he's absolutely amazing. Me and my group would give him a template of what we're looking for, anything. 'Well I want daft punk with m83 meets dark knight' and you cram them together and you work it out. That's the way were telling the audio stories.


I'm not saying he will pull it off but he has the knowledge and connections with the NFL to make it happen.

Not going to spend too much time on this because it's pointless, just bold how Murray's own words highlight the continued legacy issue with presentation, with all the talk of hybrid and mix instead if just emulating what's already been done well before. For forever we have had different volume sliders for gamers to choose the audio experience, whether they want to amp up on field sounds to feel more in-game, amp up broadcast elements to feel more like watching tv or find their own mixture. What Murray is describing here is just another repackaging of "beyond broadcast" which was admittedly by Tiburon not something people wanted but here we are again having it offered by someone with "better credentials"

It's the same song and dance, "this is a video game so there's so much more we can do that they can't do in a NFL broadcast", while completely overlooking by doing "more" you continually remind the gamer they are playing a video game, diminishing immersion. smh
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Old 08-02-2014, 11:29 AM   #448
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

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Originally Posted by FaceMask
That's not what I said.



Knowledge and credentials are great. But application and execution is the main point, and if you can't do that it means nothing.

Both Michael Young and Brian Murray have strong NFL shooting credentials. Yet, the outcome is a camera design that is in opposition to the very principles they know are employed when shooting an NFL game.

Two excellent points were made earlier in this thread; I believe Sage brought up that there is no way someone like Brian Murray would've intended to shoot the game like this considering his knowledge, and that the issues likely fall on the in-seat developers. I can certainly see such a scenario.

CM Hooe also made an equally cogent point; with Brian Murray's knowledge of shooting accuracy, it's very likely that this rendition is being done on purpose to show off the graphics. That wouldn't surprise me either.

The problem I have is with balance, and that's always the problem with this game. I can deal with them taking a little bit of artistic license if they just feel the need to, fine, whatever. But why does that have to outweigh sim? Why can't it be 75% sim shooting, and 25% artistic shooting? I want 100% sim, but at least that would be better than just trying to be nearly 100% experimental with the shooting. The most critically acclaimed sports games on the planet aren't trying to be experimental, so why is Madden?
The bold underline. Case in Point.
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