Madden NFL 15 - Complete Player and Team Ratings For AFC and NFC North

[Wreckincrew]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

I get that. I'm just responding to the previous poster who's basing Sherman's rating strictly on game speed. This was brought up because I posted Sherman's 40 time vs Jimmy Smith and Matt Elam's, both who have faster 40 times than Sherman yet Sherman is much faster than them in Madden. But the reason why Madden has Sherman like that is because they don't have those intangibles as a big part of the game and my conclusion is the entire system is flawed so I see why they do what they do even though I don't like it.

Or because he is on the cover and need him to be the best corner in the game to justify that.

[Cre8]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

I get that. I'm just responding to the previous poster who's basing Sherman's rating strictly on game speed. This was brought up because I posted Sherman's 40 time vs Jimmy Smith and Matt Elam's, both who have faster 40 times than Sherman yet Sherman is much faster than them in Madden. But the reason why Madden has Sherman like that is because they don't have those intangibles as a big part of the game and my conclusion is the entire system is flawed so I see why they do what they do even though I don't like it.

What is interesting to me is that we base a player's speed off of a 40 that they ran as an incoming rookie - maybe. Some players don't run the 40... others have an off day when running it (like Joe Haden).

I totally agree with you in terms of the intangibles that Sherman may possess over other players.

I feel like there needs to be a couple different speed/acceleration ratings in order to really show the speed of players. The only time a player will ever run anything like a 40 yard dash will be when running the Verts or defending the Vert route in man coverage.

That said, even when defending the Vert route the DB should be at a slight 'speed' disadvantage because they have to play off of the actions of the WR/QB. When this is the issue, I think 'closing the gap' is something that other DBs do better than others - DeAngelo Hall, Deion Sanders and others have been great at this over the years.

Other players like Sherman seem to require the physicality of their defense in order to keep the WR where they want them more than their straight line speed (IE - press/physical strength). I don't watch a lot of Sherman, maybe he is the fastest player in the league and I don't give him enough credit - but that is my view on what DB speed should be.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by Wreckincrew

Or because he is on the cover and need him to be the best corner in the game to justify that.

The fact that this is most likely the correct reason for making players erroneously faster than they should be makes me want to puke.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cre8

What is interesting to me is that we base a player's speed off of a 40 that they ran as an incoming rookie - maybe. Some players don't run the 40... others have an off day when running it (like Joe Haden). I totally agree with you in terms of the intangibles that Sherman may possess over other players. I feel like there needs to be a couple different speed/acceleration ratings in order to really show the speed of players. The only time a player will ever run anything like a 40 yard dash will be when running the Verts or defending the Vert route in man coverage. That said, even when defending the Vert route the DB should be at a slight 'speed' disadvantage because they have to play off of the actions of the WR/QB. When this is the issue, I think 'closing the gap' is something that other DBs do better than others - DeAngelo Hall, Deion Sanders and others have been great at this over the years. Other players like Sherman seem to require the physicality of their defense in order to keep the WR where they want them more than their straight line speed (IE - press/physical strength). I don't watch a lot of Sherman, maybe he is the fastest player in the league and I don't give him enough credit - but that is my view on what DB speed should be.

Well, for the guys who don't run we still have some pretty good data to fall back on. Most guys run in offseason workouts, tryouts, pre-camp testing, college, etc. I don't have anyone in my database of 70,000 players WITHOUT a 40 time of some sort. Now, having all of the split times, that is a different story.

Did Joe Haden really have an off day running his 40? The guy ran 4.52 at the combine then ran a 4.43 at his pro day. That 4.43 is pretty darn good. I wouldn't call that "off". He seems to play close to that potential too when I watch him, anyway. No doubt he has some very good physical skills.

Also, I have a buddy who has been keeping track of in-game 40 times for a long time. Pretty interesting stuff actually. It says more about injuries, stamina, and reaction than anything though. I think that the best way is to take everyone's best recorded record. This way, you know at their very best, in ideal conditions, they will run no faster than "x". Give them the benefit of the doubt. Everyone is then measured using the same metrics, which allows players to be comparable. Isn't that the point of the pre-draft workouts anyway? Why else do them? Why do I have scouting data for an 11th grader's shuttle time in my database? Somebody in this front office cares for a reason. To me, that has to give some credibility to the data in itself. So why not use it if we have it? Maybe it beats youtube scouting.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

Ravens fan so I got a few things to say. Joe Flacco -- Gasp, this is actually a good rating. To my fellow Ravens fan who thinks Joe deserves better than that 63 deep accuracy, Joe was dreadful on his downfield passes last season (last among QBs if I recall). Now we can argue that part of the reason was how often he threw deep (loses the surprise factor) but either way he was terrible. Jimmy Smith -- Rubbish rating. Jimmy and Webby should both be an 88. Rest of the team -- Most of our top guys, with the exception of Tucker, are overrated. But then again the league as a whole is overrated so it balances out. But personally I don't think a single player aside from the goofy kicker is deserving of a 90+ rating. I will be editing quite a bit this year.

I'm going to ask you in what aspect are they overrated? If anything the ratings show Donny Moore doesn't know much about the Ravens. HE has 26 guys on our team tougher than Marshal Yanda. That is a laughing stock. There probably aren't even 26 guys in the entire damn league tougher than Yanda. He has rookie QB Keith Wenning tougher than a guy who broke his leg and came back in the same damn season and played in the bloodbath battles against the Steelers. A guy who separated his shoulder and made the damn pro bowl. And a rookie QB who hasn't played a damn down in the NFL is already tougher?

He has Brandon Williams as the 9th strongest player on our team. Again, just shows he doesn't know what he's talking about. Ngata and Williams are probably neck and neck with Williams getting the edge in upper body strength and Ngata getting the edge in lower body strength.

There are so many things wrong within a single team itself that shows that there needs to be more than one person doing this type of job. I'm sure anyone can go to their favorite team and find all kinds of problems.

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

I'm going to ask you in what aspect are they overrated? If anything the ratings show Donny Moore doesn't know much about the Ravens. HE has 26 guys on our team tougher than Marshal Yanda. That is a laughing stock. There probably aren't even 26 guys in the entire damn league tougher than Yanda. He has rookie QB Keith Wenning tougher than a guy who broke his leg and came back in the same damn season and played in the bloodbath battles against the Steelers. A guy who separated his shoulder and made the damn pro bowl. And a rookie QB who hasn't played a damn down in the NFL is already tougher? He has Brandon Williams as the 9th strongest player on our team. Again, just shows he doesn't know what he's talking about. Ngata and Williams are probably neck and neck with Williams getting the edge in upper body strength and Ngata getting the edge in lower body strength. There are so many things wrong within a single team itself that shows that there needs to be more than one person doing this type of job. I'm sure anyone can go to their favorite team and find all kinds of problems.

I was speaking more of the overall ratings. 90+ should be an elite player. Aside from Tucker no one on our team is elite in my opinion. A good argument can be made for Suggs, but the way he fell off in the second half of the season is cause for concern. Ngata is next best but his production has been falling off.

As for individual marks, here are a few observations:
For toughness, that is a hard thing to quantify. To be honest it is one of the attributes I care least about.
Ngata: 79 acceleration? Get out of here. 85 hit power is questionable. It would suck for him to fall on you, but a d lineman that can hit stick? Me no likey. Plus hit power is basically a fumble modifier and he forced 0 fumbles in the last two years. 92 tackle is a tad high as well. Last season a good argument could be made that Arthur Jones outplayed him.

Suggs: 91 strength eh? Riight. Other than that I don't have many other issues with his rating, but that 91 is a bit crazy. And no offense, you are not happy that Williams got the short end of the stick on strength, but Suggs being overrated in this category is okay?

Brandon Williams' strength (or lack thereof): The sad truth is that I have come to expect things like this from Moore. Certain players receive little attention from him. My guess is that Brandon must not have a highlight video on youtube. On the other hand, he had 30 reps. The record is like 49. A 90 is fair. So my take on it is that many other players are overrated.

That brings me to my main point: The Madden rosters as a whole overrate most players (by overall and individual attribute). So compared to the rest of the teams in Madden no our team is not overrated. But compared to my preferred ratings scale the Ravens are overrated.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

I was speaking more of the overall ratings. 90+ should be an elite player. Aside from Tucker no one on our team is elite in my opinion. A good argument can be made for Suggs, but the way he fell off in the second half of the season is cause for concern. Ngata is next best but his production has been falling off. As for individual marks, here are a few observations: For toughness, that is a hard thing to quantify. To be honest it is one of the attributes I care least about. Ngata: 79 acceleration? Get out of here. 85 hit power is questionable. It would suck for him to fall on you, but a d lineman that can hit stick? Me no likey. Plus hit power is basically a fumble modifier and he forced 0 fumbles in the last two years. 92 tackle is a tad high as well. Last season a good argument could be made that Arthur Jones outplayed him. Suggs: 91 strength eh? Riight. Other than that I don't have many other issues with his rating, but that 91 is a bit crazy. And no offense, you are not happy that Williams got the short end of the stick on strength, but Suggs being overrated in this category is okay? Brandon Williams' strength (or lack thereof): The sad truth is that I have come to expect things like this from Moore. Certain players receive little attention from him. My guess is that Brandon must not have a highlight video on youtube. On the other hand, he had 30 reps. The record is like 49. A 90 is fair. So my take on it is that many other players are overrated. That brings me to my main point: The Madden rosters as a whole overrate most players (by overall and individual attribute). So compared to the rest of the teams in Madden no our team is not overrated. But compared to my preferred ratings scale the Ravens are overrated.

And what I am saying to you is what you call overrated unfortunately NEEDS to be the way it is in this game or else the players are scrubs. Yes you and I look at 91 strength for Suggs and say JOKE. But without that he's never going to get off a block in this game. And those 9 sacks that he had in what 5 weeks would never be possible.

I would use different language on Williams. He's the strongest guy on our team. Also bench press is a different matter altogether. A person can improve their bench press in 6 months easily. Also, 30 reps vs 1 rep max. Which one should we use? And even within that, Williams 30 reps vs others. Williams seems to do slow controlled reps vs other guys bouncing the weight off their chest.

In this Madden system based on what you are proposing you'd have to make everyone on our team weaker than 90 strength. Then watch the team not be able to stop the run. Nobody will get off blocks. It's the product of a messed up system and guys are required to be a certain way or they will not be productive.

Ngata may not have forced any fumbles but if you want him to tackle a HB running up the middle then the rating has to be the way it is. I don't look at it as them being overrated or any team being overrated but more so a flawed system that requires the numbers to be that way or else the players are scrubs. The system is very old and outdated and they really need to move on to something else IMO. But this is what they choose to stick with. As long as they stick with this I don't think overrate is a great word to describe anything except for things that completely fly in the face of known data.

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

And what I am saying to you is what you call overrated unfortunately NEEDS to be the way it is in this game or else the players are scrubs. Yes you and I look at 91 strength for Suggs and say JOKE. But without that he's never going to get off a block in this game. And those 9 sacks that he had in what 5 weeks would never be possible. I would use different language on Williams. He's the strongest guy on our team. Also bench press is a different matter altogether. A person can improve their bench press in 6 months easily. Also, 30 reps vs 1 rep max. Which one should we use? And even within that, Williams 30 reps vs others. Williams seems to do slow controlled reps vs other guys bouncing the weight off their chest. In this Madden system based on what you are proposing you'd have to make everyone on our team weaker than 90 strength. Then watch the team not be able to stop the run. Nobody will get off blocks. It's the product of a messed up system and guys are required to be a certain way or they will not be productive. Ngata may not have forced any fumbles but if you want him to tackle a HB running up the middle then the rating has to be the way it is. I don't look at it as them being overrated or any team being overrated but more so a flawed system that requires the numbers to be that way or else the players are scrubs. The system is very old and outdated and they really need to move on to something else IMO. But this is what they choose to stick with. As long as they stick with this I don't think overrate is a great word to describe anything except for things that completely fly in the face of known data.

I can agree with that.

I cannot "fix" the Ravens roster without editing the entire league otherwise I would break the team. That is why in my first post I did mention how the rest of the NFL is rated too high so it balances out. Certainly it is better to say that the entire system is flawed rather than saying overrated.

But we are pretty much stuck with this. Since the CFM info has been released and it appears we do not get to edit draftees we are screwed.

But other than that, you can be sure that I am editing Jimmy to a more respectful rating