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Madden NFL 15 Training: Changes in the Wide-Nine Technique (Video)

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Old 08-03-2014, 07:18 PM   #9
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Training: Changes in the Wide-Nine Technique (Video)

Couple things..first previous Madden's who employed wide 9 had a major flaw..anytime a DE lined up in this formation (with both hands on the ground)..they were "suck in mud" and extremely slow off the snap..also as u stated they would not attack outside shoulder..I have yet to see a stream yet of 15 where this hasn't been corrected..(my thought is the dev worried it would be exploited) causing DE to come off the ball too fast..which is what it is suppose too do in the first place..what worries me for 15 as well is dev's have stated that wide 9 can be used to combat outside runs..well here is the issue with that..with any defensive front there is a weakness..wide 9 front are normal exposed on running plays no matter the location of the run play (and mostly on speed option/read option/draws/and traps see Phila Eagles and Lions)..reason being..by design wide 9 creates massive running lanes..with that said in the NFL wide 9 has been almost removed from all non-passing downs.. Due to that.. Wide 9 is not used with any 3-4 fronts..it is mainly used with 4 down linemen not outside linebackers..Just my two cents and what I know/learned during my years of playing..I'm sure LBz could explain much better
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:12 PM   #10
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Training: Changes in the Wide-Nine Technique (Video)

Well I have a small problem, or a few with the analysis. As an Eagles fan I saw just how one sided the wide 9 is. It is a Sack driven defensive line up, that has severe repercussions.

When the unmatched "dream team" stepped on the field with DL coach Jim Washburn, eagles fans were in store for one of the most prolific defenses they've seen since the late Jim Johnson. Washburn specialized in the Wide Nine, was the creator of the 100M dollar man Albert Haynesworth, and was the reason the Titans were halfway real event on defense. Washburns wide 9 lined up pass rushers outside to isolate Offensive Tackles. He then would use two defensive tackles, to do the same on guards, or the center. The analysis itself is correct, when it comes to the pass rush. However, this breakdown completely whiffed on all other factors of the wide 9.

The wide nine may absolutely be the worst defense you could possibly use against the run. I've watched it over and over as an eagles fan a while back. Teams caught onto this weakness and that's why the dream team became a nightmare. This wide 9 is completely neutered by running draw plays and attacking the middle of the defense. You must have spectacular and sure tackling LBs to make this defense even serviceable. Teams sudden learned, that this was our weakness. They would do a draw, let the DEs run passed the play, and focus downfield on the 2nd level, the linebackers. Once a guard, FB, or even offensive tackle gained that second level iT was all but over. The wide 9 isolates your linebackers, and makes them an easy target. The running lanes allocated by the wide nine, have been described as driving a school bus through them, there is no way around this.

The wide 9 also puts the DTs in harms way, by playing a numbers game,outnumbered by one. 3vs2, that math is never going to go the other way.

The wide 9 was picked apart and there are so many ways to defile it. For example, in shotgun you need a RB and TE. These will both offer chip blocks to slow the pass rush,neutralizing the fear of getting sacked, the DE is no longer gaining the outside shoulder, he's just staring into a double team, with absolutely no other options.

Screen plays absolutely devastated us in philly, those speed rushers would get 5 yards away from the designed run, before they even noticed what was happening. The real wide 9 is all about pass rush, so if the video game is going to implement a true wide 9, these flaws and weaknesses should be portrayed as said above. The DEs pin their ears back, and only focus on the QB. Everything else is a blur to them and they are completely oblivious to their surroundings.

That is my first problem with Maddens wide 9, and that analyst's interpretation of how practical it is.


My second problem is that the comparison of the wide 9 to the Nickel 3-3-5 is nothing short of baffling. A nickel 3-3-5 with rushing LBs is closer to a 5-2 or 5-1-5 than the wide 9. The wide 9 is a 4-3 based system, exclusively. The edge contain in the video, is realistic in a situation where there LB or DEs job is setting the edge, In the wide 9 the DEs job is to gain a clear path to the QB, not set the edge. Hence Washburn's firing. These two schemes have no similarities. The 3-3-5 will give you the 3-4 system that looks to draw double teams on your down linemen(hence the larger or anchorous players in the 3-4 DL) and allows your LBs to have 1on Zero matchup (or 1 on running back) to split into the backfield. The wide 9 however, does the exact opposite. The only matchup it gains, is the one on the edges, the players furthest outside of the middle, are taken advantage of, and puts the rest of the D at a disadvantage.

The wide 9 puts all pressure on your linebackers and safeties to overcompensate, the uselessness of the defensive ends. It makes the LBs play In space against Tight Ends and RBs near the line of scrimmage, advantage offense. You can almost literally play an 11 v 9 game with the ousting of the DE. Which is why the eagles had one of the worst defenses in the NFL in 2012, and why the dream team went crashing.

This scheme is a complete flash in the pan, and that pan should be thrown away. It's a scheme that will hurt itself more than the opposition, a scheme that will be portrayed inaccurately in madden, and a scheme that is easily taken advantage of. Although the analyst says it's their job to be purely pass rushers, he negates his own comparison by saying the LBs and DTs must make up for gap control, but why would the OLB (who is the wide 9 tech in video) contain the outside edge on a run play, if his goal is to reach the QB?

As I said. This video was inaccurate in comparison (3-3-5), true philosophy of the wide 9 (gaining containment), and failed to portray honesty about the wide 9(weaknesses). The wide 9 is nothing short of a 1 on 1 practice drill for DEs that have one responsibility, and gives their teammates an extra 3 burdens.

The Eagles had 50 sacks the first year of the wide 9, it was almost cut in half the year after. They are also ran on, for over 2000 yards that season, which was over 125 yards rushing against per game. My critique is more of the scheme itself obviously, my the reviewer also missed a few key things to discuss, and whiffed on the comparison of the two formations.

Last edited by BreakingBad2013; 08-03-2014 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:29 PM   #11
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Training: Changes in the Wide-Nine Technique (Video)

[quote=BreakingBad2013;2046443880]Well I have a small problem, or a few with the analysis. As an Eagles fan I saw just how one sided the wide 9 is. It is a Sack driven defensive line up, that has severe repercussions.

The wide nine may absolutely be the worst defense you could possibly use against the run. I've watched it over and over as an eagles fan a while back. Teams caught onto this weakness and that's why the dream team became a nightmare. This wide 9 is completely neutered by running draw plays and attacking the middle of the defense. You must have spectacular and sure tackling LBs to make this defense even serviceable.

The wide 9 was picked apart and there are so many ways to defile it. For example, in shotgun you need a RB and TE. These will both offer chip blocks to slow the pass rush,neutralizing the fear of getting sacked, the DE is no longer gaining the outside shoulder, he's just staring into a double team, with absolutely no other options.

My second problem is that the comparison of the wide 9 to the Nickel 3-3-5 is nothing short of baffling. A nickel 3-3-5 with rushing LBs is closer to a 5-2 or 5-1-5 than the wide 9. The wide 9 is a 4-3 based system, exclusively. The edge contain in the video, is realistic in a situation where there LB or DEs job is setting the edge, In the wide 9 the DEs job is to gain a clear path to the QB, not set the edge. Hence Washburn's firing. These two schemes have no similarities. The 3-3-5 will give you the 3-4 system that looks to draw double teams on your down linemen(hence the larger or anchorous players in the 3-4 DL) and allows your LBs to have 1on Zero matchup (or 1 on running back) to split into the backfield. The wide 9 however, does the exact opposite. The only matchup it gains, is the one on the edges, the players furthest outside of the middle, are taken advantage of, and puts the rest of the D at a disadvantage.

The wide 9 puts all pressure on your linebackers and safeties to overcompensate, the uselessness of the defensive ends. It makes the LBs play In space against Tight Ends and RBs near the line of scrimmage, advantage offense. You can almost literally play an 11 v 9 game with the ousting of the DE. Which is why the eagles had one of the worst defenses in the NFL in 2012, and why the dream team went crashing.



I agree with everything you said.. so maybe i didnt articulate as well as I should have.. i didnt mean to say that the wide 9 was good against the run.. (although some coaches argue that this is B.S.) i was trying to show that wide 9 in madden is good against the run now, (although it shoudnt be) as the backer sets the edge. but i also thought i mentioned that this is not a real wide 9 defense and that its not authentically portrayed. at all. and i thought i mentioned how the ends should pin ears back and rush qb/not set edge. obviously not well enough though hah. and i meant that in general, tackles and backers must make up for extra space given because wide 9 always used out of like 4-3. yet, in this example, (its odd that wide 9 run in 335) the backer acts as the end. so i was just talking bout how generally linebackers (in a 4-3) must make up for ground given up by ends..

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Old 08-03-2014, 09:15 PM   #12
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Training: Changes in the Wide-Nine Technique (Video)

Once again, the only game talks authentic then tells us to use the wide 9 to stop the run. And they talk about madden as a learning tool? I just don't understand this at all.

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Old 08-03-2014, 09:43 PM   #13
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Training: Changes in the Wide-Nine Technique (Video)

Wolverine I appreciate the effort but wide 9 tech is only used or called with down linemen..in the videos u showed of the 3-3-5..u have the ends playing 6 tech and d-tackle 0 tech..the linebacker is likely called joker in this formation however he isn't playing 9 tech..again these terms are normally reserved for down linemen and there placement on the line..
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:53 PM   #14
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Training: Changes in the Wide-Nine Technique (Video)

Quote:
Originally Posted by StefJoeHalt
Wolverine I appreciate the effort but wide 9 tech is only used or called with down linemen..in the videos u showed of the 3-3-5..u have the ends playing 6 tech and d-tackle 0 tech..the linebacker is likely called joker in this formation however he isn't playing 9 tech..again these terms are normally reserved for down linemen and there placement on the line..
thats true in real life. but not in madden.. which is what i was trying to point out. check this live stream out. go to 24 minute mark. dickson talks bout this wide 9 technique as way to stop run... which is concerning. he specifically states that the sam here is in wide 9, so when im talking bout wide 9 in video, im talking bout how its implemented in madden, not real life. i tried to discern how madden's version of wide 9 is incorrect though.. but yeah check this out and lemme know what you think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w27YWRV-n1Y

he says "this is a d end in 9 technique" and later says "thats the wide nine set"

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Old 08-04-2014, 12:31 AM   #15
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Training: Changes in the Wide-Nine Technique (Video)

I thought the video was well done
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Old 08-04-2014, 01:59 AM   #16
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Re: Madden NFL 15 Training: Changes in the Wide-Nine Technique (Video)

After watching this again..in the stream he is talking about the placement of the linebacker at the 9 tech..which has nothing to do with the "wide nine tech"..what we have is misunderstanding..Rex is speaking of the most "outside" player playing the outside shoulder which is an assignment..where is ur title references "the wide nine tech" concept..or at least that is what I believed.. He should have said the outside linebacker's assignment was to hold the edge..the reference to wide nine is either misspoken or he misunderstands what wide nine means..again we are talking two different things..but again these are things he should know..so I'm assuming he misspoke..but I did hear he reference using "wide nine" to combat outside runs which as I have stated before is extremely concerning..it's very concerning since they plan to "teach" this to effectively stop outside runs..
If anyone sees a team line up in wide nine..the first audible if 1st or 2nd down should be "run" and if they have mobile QB..audible to read option..
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