Instead of Vision Cone, Why not Camera Panning based on movement?

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

With the new close up camera angle, this would work really well.

First, it would change the post-snap pass camera zoom a little (a bit smaller view of the field).

Second, when in the pocket, instead of just moving up, down, left and right, when you move left or right the camera would pan a little bit in that direction, showing you more of the field in that direction and less in the other. This would be only minor. Just a slight rotation like who I think Madden 08 did when the QB scrambled one way or the other.

The end result is more realistic QB play in general, fewer "run left throw right" kind of idiotic plays since the furthest parts of the field would be obscured.



Another complementary idea is to zoom in the camera a bit when the sprint button is pushed behind the line of scrimmage by a quarterback, once again slightly limiting the field of vision.




Both of these ideas would make QB play a little more realistic and simultaneously make cheesy idiocy a little harder to do.



What do you think?

[Aggies7]

Re: Instead of Vision Cone, Why not Camera Panning based on movement?

I don't know if we are on the same page. But I wouldn't mind when you are in the pocket have the camera pan left/middle/right so when you are looking right you cant see your backside (right handed QB) routes. This would also effect the defenders as they would drift to the right as you are looking that way. If you know and have your timing down as the Safety cheats to the right you can hit your backside 8 route (post).

Just a thought sounds similar to your idea I believe

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Instead of Vision Cone, Why not Camera Panning based on movement?

I don't know if we are on the same page. But I wouldn't mind when you are in the pocket have the camera pan left/middle/right so when you are looking right you cant see your backside (right handed QB) routes. This would also effect the defenders as they would drift to the right as you are looking that way. If you know and have your timing down as the Safety cheats to the right you can hit your backside 8 route (post).

Just a thought sounds similar to your idea I believe

It's similar, but my idea would depend on the motion of the quarterback.

Maybe a right stick control of the pan would work better, but I'm think something natural. An extension of the actual motion of the player model. Maybe it could be pressure sensitive. Slight movement only causes the pan, but stronger movement causes both the pan and fast player movement.


But you mean like an autoscroll based on play call? My issue with that is that sometimes read progressions change based on the front the defense comes out in. If you mean scrolling the opposite direction the QB looks, I don't know. Part of why I want this is to simulate the limited field of vision a QB has. Often times the back side route is known more by understanding of the coverage than direct vision, I think.

[Aggies7]

Re: Instead of Vision Cone, Why not Camera Panning based on movement?

It's similar, but my idea would depend on the motion of the quarterback.

Maybe a right stick control of the pan would work better, but I'm think something natural. An extension of the actual motion of the player model. Maybe it could be pressure sensitive. Slight movement only causes the pan, but stronger movement causes both the pan and fast player movement.


But you mean like an autoscroll based on play call? My issue with that is that sometimes read progressions change based on the front the defense comes out in. If you mean scrolling the opposite direction the QB looks, I don't know. Part of why I want this is to simulate the limited field of vision a QB has. Often times the back side route is known more by understanding of the coverage than direct vision, I think.

I would even say manual scroll with opposite stick. So you have to look where you throw and can look off the coverage. I know it's way to complex but for Player mode being a QB it would make it 100% more realistic and challenging.

But I understand your point on QB motion. I like that idea as well

[Mbalmer]

Re: Instead of Vision Cone, Why not Camera Panning based on movement?

Did they bring vision cone back at some point? Haven't played Madden in several years.

[Sigma4Life]

Re: Instead of Vision Cone, Why not Camera Panning based on movement?

With the new close up camera angle, this would work really well.

First, it would change the post-snap pass camera zoom a little (a bit smaller view of the field).

Second, when in the pocket, instead of just moving up, down, left and right, when you move left or right the camera would pan a little bit in that direction, showing you more of the field in that direction and less in the other. This would be only minor. Just a slight rotation like who I think Madden 08 did when the QB scrambled one way or the other.

The end result is more realistic QB play in general, fewer "run left throw right" kind of idiotic plays since the furthest parts of the field would be obscured.



Another complementary idea is to zoom in the camera a bit when the sprint button is pushed behind the line of scrimmage by a quarterback, once again slightly limiting the field of vision.




Both of these ideas would make QB play a little more realistic and simultaneously make cheesy idiocy a little harder to do.



What do you think?

I like it. It's like vision cone without the flash light that so many people hated. I actually loved vision cone so I'd like to see a version of it return.

[BreakingBad2013]

Re: Instead of Vision Cone, Why not Camera Panning based on movement?

I bought Madden 06 just to use the cone again. The only reason people didn't like it, was because it was too challenging to have enough times to go through your reads, and deliver the ball, unless you had a good QB, or you were really good.

I think they should bring it back, exactly how they used to have it. There'd be no more explanation on "inaccurate passes" if you have Peyton, your cone is the entire field, if you're Johnny Football its a sliver, and you have to be pin point, or it may be off.

[Hooe]

Re: Instead of Vision Cone, Why not Camera Panning based on movement?

I go the other way on this.

I'm already reading the defense with my own eyes. My virtual player shouldn't have to duplicate the task after I've already identified the receiver I want to throw to. It gets in the way. I especially don't want to have to use the right thumbstick to do anything at all in the current Madden game from an ergonomics standpoint - be it move my QB's vision cone or move a camera - when I have to use a controller face button to throw the ball, as I want to be able to keep my thumb on the face buttons if I have to use them to do anything at all. I can't move my thumb from the right thumbstick to the face button quickly enough to get a pass off before I get sacked.

I would rather there be more passive ways to differentiate QBs' intelligence (since I'm guessing the aim of this is to make AWR matter for user-controlled QBs, as it currently is no object). For example, give high AWR QBs access to a pre-snap identify coverage mini game (which could reveal partial or full play art of the defense upon success), limit low AWR QBs' ability to call audibles by removing audible slots as AWR decreases (all the way down to zero for QBs with severely low AWR), limit low AWR QBs' ability to call hot routes by increasing the time it takes for low-AWR QBs to call a single hot route, and so on.

I think that adding more direct camera manipulation _could_ work if EA radically changed the passing game mechanics to better accommodate two-stick movement. For example - and I'm just spit-balling here - EA could lock the camera to the QB from a third-person perspective, add traditional third-person movement controls (left stick forward / backward / laterally, right stick changes direction; use any modern third-person action game as an example for what I'm getting at). From there, RT throws the ball to the aimed-at downfield receiver / spot on the field (with pressure sensitivity on the release for determining lob vs bullet), RB for throwing to a hot read in the face of pressure, LB for throwing to a check down receiver quickly, hold LT and press RT for pump fake, and A to toggle into full-blown running back controls for scrambling.

That idea probably needs plenty of refinement, but what I'm going for above is to create a two-thumbstick control mechanic where using the right thumbstick to change the QB's vision - be it the camera or a vision cone - doesn't get in the way of the user performing the primary function of throwing the ball.

[canes21]

Re: Instead of Vision Cone, Why not Camera Panning based on movement?

I like the idea OP, but things I'd like to see from the passing game are having limited view of the field like you also want, but I would like to Press A/X to look at that WR, B/O to look at that receiver, etc. But instead of hitting the button again to throw it, I think we need to bring back what was in NFL Fever and have an on field cursor that you are aiming the throw. Of course on lower difficulties the game could already have it automatically moving and all you would need to do his pass it to the WR and it accounts for everything.

On higher difficulties I'd love to see the player lock onto a WR, then have to aim the cursor to account for the defenders, wind, boundaries, etc. This system would make wind matter finally in the passing game. Imagine your opening drive, you drop back and see a wide open WR, you go to throw it and instead of hitting him in stride, the pass is blown by the wind and he has to stop his momentum to make the catch and it ruins the whole flow of the play. With dynamic wind, this would create a new dynamic and adjustment in the passing game.

Plus, with the system you could finally see over/under throws that make sense. You'd be able to place the ball in an area that only your WR could get to or no one catches it. To differentiate between QBs, the cursor can vary in size based on ratings and the deeper down the field you go, it can change in real time to also account for their ratings(Medium Accuracy, Deep Accuracy). Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees... they would have pinpoint cursors. Then you could draft that new rookie in your franchise who has great athletic ability, great arm strength, but average accuracy and you'd be able to tell right away that his cursor is larger and you would see that you're not hitting the WRs perfectly regularly.

[dghustla]

Re: Instead of Vision Cone, Why not Camera Panning based on movement?

After seeing the tackle cone. I wouldn't mind them making a vision cone similar to that size. I don't want it to function like the last cone. I thought it was terrible and cumbersome. I think that a bonus to accuracy should be given to QBs throwing in the direction of the cone and that's it.

I would like the entire passing mechanic to be moved to the right stick. The top half of the stick can be used to move the QBs vision and bottom half to initiate the throw. Face buttons can still be used to auto target WRs to allow for snap decisions when needed but of course the QB won't be able to look off the safety etc.

obviously that is a very raw concept. It would need to be much deeper and complex to account for WRs in running curl-flat combo. etc.

Another concept that might sound crazy, is using right thumb to target and L2 to initiate the throw. It would have a more natural feel that trying to use right thumb and face buttons. This way the entire right thumb can be coded for things like Up,Down,Lt,RT to auto target the WR in the corresponding area.
Point being is there are many different ways that this can be implemented.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Instead of Vision Cone, Why not Camera Panning based on movement?

I like the idea OP, but things I'd like to see from the passing game are having limited view of the field like you also want, but I would like to Press A/X to look at that WR, B/O to look at that receiver, etc. But instead of hitting the button again to throw it, I think we need to bring back what was in NFL Fever and have an on field cursor that you are aiming the throw. Of course on lower difficulties the game could already have it automatically moving and all you would need to do his pass it to the WR and it accounts for everything.

On higher difficulties I'd love to see the player lock onto a WR, then have to aim the cursor to account for the defenders, wind, boundaries, etc. This system would make wind matter finally in the passing game. Imagine your opening drive, you drop back and see a wide open WR, you go to throw it and instead of hitting him in stride, the pass is blown by the wind and he has to stop his momentum to make the catch and it ruins the whole flow of the play. With dynamic wind, this would create a new dynamic and adjustment in the passing game.

Plus, with the system you could finally see over/under throws that make sense. You'd be able to place the ball in an area that only your WR could get to or no one catches it. To differentiate between QBs, the cursor can vary in size based on ratings and the deeper down the field you go, it can change in real time to also account for their ratings(Medium Accuracy, Deep Accuracy). Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees... they would have pinpoint cursors. Then you could draft that new rookie in your franchise who has great athletic ability, great arm strength, but average accuracy and you'd be able to tell right away that his cursor is larger and you would see that you're not hitting the WRs perfectly regularly.

This reminds me of Backbreaker a lot.

Another concept would be sort of an auto scrolling thing where you could select your progressions presnap (for example, the way HC 09 did it), and then the camera would pan through the order you set (or you could let it go through the play's default order as well).

I'm down for something similar to what you're proposing though.

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Instead of Vision Cone, Why not Camera Panning based on movement?

I like the idea, OP

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[Maddenaddictive50]

Re: Instead of Vision Cone, Why not Camera Panning based on movement?

i wish the vision cone would make a come back. ya it might of been a pain for some users back the ps2 but I think back then users were not skilled enough yet (I was but not maybe the older crowd) It did come back I think having the option to turn it off and on to your liking.

But again the WR would have to do a better job on the their route running and going for the ball etc. Also ball placement would need a lot of work as well for it to make a descent attempt of a run. I think it would be possible now though with all the new tools of the Xbox or ps4 system.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Instead of Vision Cone, Why not Camera Panning based on movement?

I go the other way on this.

I'm already reading the defense with my own eyes. My virtual player shouldn't have to duplicate the task after I've already identified the receiver I want to throw to. It gets in the way. I especially don't want to have to use the right thumbstick to do anything at all in the current Madden game from an ergonomics standpoint - be it move my QB's vision cone or move a camera - when I have to use a controller face button to throw the ball, as I want to be able to keep my thumb on the face buttons if I have to use them to do anything at all. I can't move my thumb from the right thumbstick to the face button quickly enough to get a pass off before I get sacked.

My idea has none of that. It's something similar to what they already did in Madden 08 (WITHOUT any cones or any manual operation whatsoever). It's just a camera pan based on where you move the player. If you move to the left, the camera SLIGHTLY pans that direction.

Just like when you scramble to the right and it used to pan to the left so you could still see the whole field (I am pretty sure this started in Madden 08), except opposite: when you move right it pans right.


In Madden 08, if you ran to the right, the camera would pan slightly to the left. My idea would be a similar pan, just a bit stronger, and in the same direction you are moving rather than the opposite.




Here is an example of Madden 08. The camera slightly pans to the left when he starts running to the right toward the line of scrimmage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuChq7UkNHc&t=4m40s

My idea is similar to that, except that the camera would pan CLOCKWISE instead of counterclockwise, thereby OBSCURING the view to the far left and showing more of the far right.


For a QB who stayed in the center of the pocket, with the close camera he might have a little trouble seeing the sidelines near the line of scrimmage, but people already roll left or right when throwing that direction anyway, and in real life in the least the QB at least TURNS that way prior to throwing.

The main point of this is to make Mike Vick 04 crap a little harder to do.