Madden's Explanation of ACC and SPD is INCORRECT!

[sujlemariecj]

The 99 SPD guy will gradually gain a lead on the 50 ACC guy through each level of the spectrum up to full speed.

[majesty95]

Quote: Originally Posted by DCEBB2001

I would recommend reading the entire post before examining a "flaw". I did not say that both players will reach their top speed at the same time. The time it takes to reach top speed is dependent upon their ACC rating. That was one of the whole points of the analysis. ACC for all players reaches 0 (where velocity becomes constant) between 25 and 40 yards regardless of the SPD rating. When they reach their maximum velocity is dependent upon their ACC rating, just as EA describes. If the SPD ratings for a player are equal, the ACC will control when a player reaches that top velocity. When the ACC ratings are equal, both players will reach their top speed at the same time, even if their top speed are different. For instance if both players have an ACC=0, both players will reach their top speed at the 40 yard mark. The maximum velocity for a player with 0 SPD is about 2.5 yds/sec. It will take this player 40 yards to go from 0 yds/sec to 2.5 yds.sec. Likewise, it will take a player with ACC=0 and SPD=99 40 yards to get up to 10.7 yds/sec. So despite the fact that they have widely different SPD ratings, both will not reach their top velocities until 40 yards. This, however, does not mean that the acceleration is the same for both players. It simply means that the time it takes to reach the maximum velocity is the same. I cannot stress this enough. The ACC rating does NOT affect the rate of acceleration. It merely affects WHEN the acceleration STOPS and the velocity becomes constant.

As I said, it was too lengthy. Had it been more concise, like your reply, I may have read it all. However..

This is where I stopped and my point of contention:

Quote:

This explanation leads us to believe that the ACC ratings and SPD ratings are seemingly independent of one another. We would posit that a "Player A" with an ACC rating of 50 and SPD rating of 99 would reach the maximum velocity defined by the 99 SPD rating at the same time as another "Player B" with an ACC rating of 50 and a SPD rating of 0. This is because, according to the definition by EA, the ACC rating only determines how quickly you get up to top speed.

The way this reads is that a 99 SPD guy will reach top speed at the same time a 0 speed guy does if they both have 50 ACC. That is simply not true nor did I read EA's explanation to mean as much.

Maybe you clarified your point more further in your post. I do not know. But that is where my comment came from. I found what I deemed a flaw in your logic early on and did not feel the desire to continue reading what is admittedly a long post.

[TMJOHNS18]

Ok, graph cleared it up pretty good. SPD and ACC appear to simply change the X and Y coordinates on the graph, where SPD determines maximum Y value, and ACC determines slope needed to achieve maximum Y.


Makes sense, given only two ratings (or variables) there's really not much EA can do unless they add in more variables such as weight, height (leg length?), etc. but don't think that is possible now for them. Not to mention being able to distinguished between guys who's perceived speed is derived from their burst and ability to accelerate, to those who can actually a higher rate of speed but take longer to achieve it.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by TMJOHNS18

Ok, graph cleared it up pretty good. SPD and ACC appear to simply change the X and Y coordinates on the graph, where SPD determines maximum Y value, and ACC determines slope needed to achieve maximum Y. Makes sense, given only two ratings (or variables) there's really not much EA can do unless they add in more variables such as weight, height (leg length?), etc. but don't think that is possible now for them. Not to mention being able to distinguished between guys who's perceived speed is derived from their burst and ability to accelerate, to those who can actually a higher rate of speed but take longer to achieve it.

The only variables that matter when determining motion are found in the equations of kinematics. v=d/t is a good example. We know the distance for every player is 40 yards. The only variable is time. From this, we can deduce with 100% accuracy the rate of acceleration and maximum velocity, as well as the fall off thereafter (stamina).

What EA CAN DO, of course, is more accurately match actual acceleration patterns to real players by researching the historical data to create their models instead of simply guessing. Case in point: EA makes a 99 ACC player accelerate to 10 yards far quicker than has been shown as being possible. In addition, they make the maximum velocity far slower than what has been demonstrated as possible. On one end, EA needs to tighten the gap. On the other, they need to open it up a bit more. If they used real data to design their models instead of designing the models first, their approach would be more logical and would possibly offer a more realistic product.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by majesty95

The way this reads is that a 99 SPD guy will reach top speed at the same time a 0 speed guy does if they both have 50 ACC. That is simply not true nor did I read EA's explanation to mean as much.

Actually it IS true.

I took it a step further by using both extremes. The first player is a 0 SPD and 99 ACC. The second is a 99 SPD and 99 ACC. Both players have widely different SPD ratings but the SAME ACC RATINGS. Here are the measurements after a frame by frame analysis in the attachment.

As you can see, both players stop accelerating by the segment between yards 25-30. Both players have their last bit of acceleration between yards 20-25. This actually proves that what I have been saying is correct. Two players no matter what their SPD rating is (0 or 99 or anything in between) will reach their maximum velocity at the SAME TIME.

The data does not lie.

[StefJoeHalt]

Now I'm lost..lol..so 0 SPD 99 Acc guy and 99 SPD and 99 Acc guy both run the same 20 yard splits?
My larger question is this..does Acc matter at all for defensive and offensive linemen? Because it appears by the naked eye no matter the rating the first 1-5 (out of stance) steps appear the same no matter what their Acc is


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[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by StefJoeHalt

Now I'm lost..lol..so 0 SPD 99 Acc guy and 99 SPD and 99 Acc guy both run the same 20 yard splits?

No. If two players have the same ACC rating, they do not run the same 20 yard splits. They only do that if their ACC and SPD ratings are the same for both players.

Look at the chart I attached. Both players have different velocities at the 25-30 yard segment (meaning that one player is moving faster than the other). However, the acceleration phase (getting up to maximum speed) is completed for both players at the same time (by segment 25-30).

The 99 ACC 99 SPD player is faster than the player with 99 ACC 0 SPD. However, they both get up to their top speeds at the same time. See my chart where acceleration = 0 for both players at the 30 yard mark and beyond? That means that both players are no longer accelerating, but instead are at the maximum velocity. Look at the velocity column as well to verify this.

A player with a SPD rating of 0 will move no faster than 7.49 yds/second once he gets up to top speed. A player with 99 SPD will move no faster than 10.70 yds/second at top speed when his acceleration phase is over.

All the ACC rating does is determine WHEN the players stop accelerating. The higher the ACC rating, the shorter period of time it takes for a player to reach his top speed. In this case, a 99 ACC means that both players stop accelerating by the 25 yard mark. This is the fastest a player can get up to his top speed. If a player has an ACC of 0, then he will not be at maximum speed until the 40 yard mark.

Look at this next attachment. It is a graph of distance vs. velocity for both players. The 99 ACC 99 SPD player is in red. The 99 ACC 0 SPD player is in blue. This shows that both players stop accelerating at the same point (I took some liberty to use a rational function to smooth out the line) at 25 yards.

As you can see they do not run the same splits. The 99 ACC 99 SPD player will get to 20 yards before the 99 ACC 0 SPD player because of his higher speed. The similarity between the two (via the same 99 ACC) is that both reach their own top velocity (7.49 yds/second for the 0 SPD player and 10.70 yds/second for the 99 SPD player) at the same distance (25 yards downfield). The only difference is that the 99 SPD player is moving FASTER than the 0 SPD player at that time.


Simple kinematics guys. Don't they teach physics in high school anymore?

[StefJoeHalt]

Well I'm 36 and I def slept through math/physics classes..lol..I got it now thank u..what's ur thoughts on my second part of the question..thanks


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