Quick salary cap question

[mo_86_05]

I understand the part about cutting players with left over bonus and such. Here is my question. How do you know how much a player will cost against the cap before signing him? Example:

I have kiko alonso up for contract year. Currently, i have $10 million to work with in cap space. He currently wants $9 million a year. Now, does his total money go against my cap, or jist his base salary, ignoring the signing bonus. I want to make sure i have enough to sign him.

Another question. Mario williams is on year 16 of his contract which expires next year. Cutting him the season would cost me $6 million, but saves me $11. I dont really need the cap for this season, so no need to take that penalty. He is due $24 his last season in base salary. Now, cant i go ahead and cut him once we start 2017 season, not face any penalty, and do i get all $24 million of that salary back in cap space? Moving my cap from $10 to 34 million?

[kcchiefs1984]

When you cut or trade him next season, you will gain the 24m in cap space. While the remainder of guaranteed money will come out your owner funds immediately.

[WelshWizard]

First things first. Bonus comes out of funds with a owner and nothing with a coach. Both are cap hits I believe whether owner or coach.

A player's salary(cap hit) - Pro-rata bonus for that year and pro-rata salary for that year. Where bonus is spread evenly over the course of a contract, salary (which is not guaranteed) is 'back loaded', so you will pay a lower amount in year 1 and higher amounts every year afterwards.

So with Kiko say 9m a year in salary for 3 years so 27m would be something like below in cap hit if just pure salary.(

Year1 6.76m
Year2 8.79m
Year3 11.5m

Some facts. The hit is really small first year. Takes biggest jump for the final year. 1st to 2nd is a bigger rise than 2nd to 3rd in 4year+ deals

With 7m and a 2m bonus a year it would be like below.

Year1 5.26m + 2m(bonus)
Year2 6.84m + 2m(bonus)
Year3 8.9m + 2m(bonus)

As you see you pay less in later years if with bonus and more in the early years.

With Mario Williams you will pay any money still owed to him from guaranteed money(Bonus). It will be 3mil in his last year as I guess he has 21m bonus spread over the 7 years. If you cut with more than 1 year left the cap penalty is spread over 2 years so in your case the 6m would be 3m this season and 3m penalty the next as well.

So to be precise to Mario you would get 8mil if you cut/trade now(His cap hit(11m) minus the pen hit for that season(3m)
If you wait a season his hit will go to 24m so a extra 13m will come out of your cap first before you get 24m back from cutting him or trade which would get the 3m pen taken away for that season only. So 21mil back but you added a extra 13m so you really only gain the 8mil you could get the season before as well.

Added some detail and not straight answers but hope that makes sense and helps you

[majesty95]

Quote: Originally Posted by WelshWizard

If you cut with more than 1 year left the cap penalty is spread over 2 years so in your case the 6m would be 3m this season and 3m penalty the next as well.

Not exactly true. I thought this also but it is not evenly spread between years. I traded Adrian Peterson who had (I believe) $8M left on his bonus and 2 years left. It applied less than $4M in year one and around $5M in year two (don't remember specific numbers but it wasn't even). That may not matter in this case but it put me over the cap penalty maximum we had established in our league so its something for some to be aware of.

Quote: Originally Posted by WelshWizard

So to be precise to Mario you would get 8mil if you cut/trade now(His cap hit(11m) minus the pen hit for that season(3m) If you wait a season his hit will go to 24m so a extra 13m will come out of your cap first before you get 24m back from cutting him or trade which would get the 3m pen taken away for that season only. So 21mil back but you added a extra 13m so you really only gain the 8mil you could get the season before as well.

Where do you get the $13M? If he will be in the last year of his contract and the bonus was $21M over 7 year, you would have a $6M penalty with 2 years left and a $3M penalty in the final year.

[mo_86_05]

Ok i got a little confused on how much money i get back from mario. I understand cutting him now is a 6 mil penalty bs waiting till next season and its only 3. Im lost on how much im actually getting back. Is it best to cut him now or wait? As stated, i currently have about 4 mil in cap. Im projected to have 10 mil in cap next season. So waiting and cutting him next season would give me his entire salary back minus the 3 mil bonus? So shouldnt i have roughly 30 mil?

[WelshWizard]

Quote: Originally Posted by majesty95

Not exactly true. I thought this also but it is not evenly spread between years. I traded Adrian Peterson who had (I believe) $8M left on his bonus and 2 years left. It applied less than $4M in year one and around $5M in year two (don't remember specific numbers but it wasn't even). That may not matter in this case but it put me over the cap penalty maximum we had established in our league so its something for some to be aware of.

Was the case in past Maddens that it is spread evenly. It might of change so you might be right. Maybe the way the default contracts are done this is different than it was. But I don't know.

As you say it may not be needed in this case as it's only 6m and 2 years if it was more and someone with less salary it could make a big difference in when to cut/trade so thanks for the info.

Quote: Originally Posted by majesty95

Where do you get the $13M? If he will be in the last year of his contract and the bonus was $21M over 7 year, you would have a $6M penalty with 2 years left and a $3M penalty in the final year.

13m extra in cap not penalty.

I thought mo was based on this season cap. But anyway his salary cap hit will rise next season before you get it back in salary space. So I see not much difference in cutting now or next season other than the Pen which we all agree will be over 2 seasons if cut now so it all depends on how much that hit will be in the last season which I guess will be 3mil or more so seems best to wait.

[WelshWizard]

Quote: Originally Posted by mo_86_05

Ok i got a little confused on how much money i get back from mario. I understand cutting him now is a 6 mil penalty bs waiting till next season and its only 3. Im lost on how much im actually getting back. Is it best to cut him now or wait? As stated, i currently have about 4 mil in cap. Im projected to have 10 mil in cap next season. So waiting and cutting him next season would give me his entire salary back minus the 3 mil bonus? So shouldnt i have roughly 30 mil?

Your right that next season would do that.

But if you cut now his salary would not go up for next season so your Projection will show the roughly 30mil either way

In most cases it is best to wait as long as possible for a contract to run. With the default contracts the last year is always way backloaded as every year is the same value up to it.

A easy choice in my eyes cut now if you need it if not just wait till next season.

[kcchiefs1984]

I don't know the specifics of Mario's contract, so I'm going to use random numbers with 3 years remaining, 45m, 15m bonus. (3 years, 60m total) I'm going to use 3 years so you can see the affect bonus has on cap penalty. In the game the last year is always the most, so I'll go with these:

2015: 12m salary, 5m bonus
2016: 12m salary, 5m bonus
2017: 21m salary, 5m bonus

If you cut / trade him in 2015, you no longer pay the salary portion of his contract. You do, however, pay 5m immediately as that is the bonus money due for that season. You will also incur a 10m cap penalty the following season, 2016, as the remainder of the bonus money is still due.

If Mario is not in your long term plans, it is best to put him on the block and see if you can get any draft picks for him. If you need to build your owner funds in order to sign other players, you can save considerable money by parting ways with him.

Cut / trade in 2015: save 7m during the 2015 season, but only save 2m in 2016. (the 12m salary minus the 10m cap penalty). This saves 9m during those seasons while completely voiding the 21m in 2017.

Cut / trade in 2016: save 7m during the 2016 season, while saving 16m for the 2017 season. (21m salary minus the 5m cap penalty).