I've never experienced anything quite like this.....

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by GiantBlue76

Lol, there's that word again, agenda. Madden is the best game I've ever played, it's so good that anyone who thinks its not just hates. They don't want to add any value. If you don't like madden like I do, your thoughts are repetitive, useless, counter productive, and don't do anyone any good. Madden 15 is a fantastic football game and the developers are doing everything they can to provide us with the best experience possible. Anyone who doesn't see that is simply agenda posting. Especially you Giantblue, you've never spent countless hours putting together long documents or posts describing in detail what has or can be improved. You've never formulated well thought out ideas or innovations that could enhance the experience for everyone. You've never once worked with developers to provide valuable feedback. All you do is hate on madden and tiburon, and that AGENDA that you push, (since agendas only are relevant when you hate on madden) are just so tiresome.

Quote: Originally Posted by cpic1

Only a "*****" would say this game isn't any good. If you watch NFL games every week this game nails it! 1-2 penalties between both teams per game, spot on! QBs completing 90% of their passes, spot on! Offensive lineman coming out of their stance and staring ahead while the guy right in front of them goes passed them to drill the QB, spot on! Defensive backs spinning completely around on simple routes, spot on! I can't imagine why anyone would say this game isn't realistic. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

These posts are spot on and had me smirking thinking about how defensive some get over Madden because they get something out of it. It reminded me of this old rundown house my grandmother left me when she passed away, one I had spent many a years in. The house was rundown and old, all kind of structural issues but for me it had all kind of value. If anyone were to point out all the factual issues with that house, it wouldn't make it any less a home to me, it was both a structurally flawed house and a valued home to me. Likewise with Madden, just because people point out, gripe, anguish over the issues with it, that shouldn't be taken as an attack or affront on anyone that gets something out of the game.

One more thing I want to mention while on this subject, I've always found it odd the way people choose to post their displeasure with "negative" Madden posts, in threads where the title and/or op are clearly "negative". It seems to me like someone voluntarily walking into a strip club to rant about how tired they are of drinking, loud music and lewd conduct everywhere, lol.

[mlb61]

Quote: Originally Posted by GiantBlue76

Lol, there's that word again, agenda. Madden is the best game I've ever played, it's so good that anyone who thinks its not just hates. They don't want to add any value. If you don't like madden like I do, your thoughts are repetitive, useless, counter productive, and don't do anyone any good. Madden 15 is a fantastic football game and the developers are doing everything they can to provide us with the best experience possible. Anyone who doesn't see that is simply agenda posting. Especially you Giantblue, you've never spent countless hours putting together long documents or posts describing in detail what has or can be improved. You've never formulated well thought out ideas or innovations that could enhance the experience for everyone. You've never once worked with developers to provide valuable feedback. All you do is hate on madden and tiburon, and that AGENDA that you push, (since agendas only are relevant when you hate on madden) are just so tiresome.

Typical post by you: Overblown rhetoric masquerading as analysis. No doubt you've spent time creating doucuments espousing your basic tenet that the current development team can never make the game better. Despite that view you contine to be emotionally invested in the game (witness your emotional rhetoric). The game doesn't play you want it to, viva la revolution! Where do you get your sense of entitlement from?

[mlb61]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

These posts are spot on and had me smirking thinking about how defensive some get over Madden because they get something out of it. It reminded me of this old rundown house my grandmother left me when she passed away, one I had spent many a years in. The house was rundown and old, all kind of structural issues but for me it had all kind of value. If anyone were to point out all the factual issues with that house, it wouldn't make it any less a home to me, it was both a structurally flawed house and a valued home to me. Likewise with Madden, just because people point out, gripe, anguish over the issues with it, that shouldn't be taken as an attack or affront on anyone that gets something out of the game. One more thing I want to mention while on this subject, I've always found it odd the way people choose to post their displeasure with "negative" Madden posts, in threads where the title and/or op are clearly "negative". It seems to me like someone voluntarily walking into a strip club to rant about how tired they are of drinking, loud music and lewd conduct everywhere, lol.

The title isn't negative. Had it been, I wouldn't have wasted my time reading the thread. The reason I did read it was the last poster was rushinplayallgame, someone who has done some stellar analysis of Madden 15 (unlike the "madden is so broken" chorus). Note I have not said one word in defense of Madden in this thread. I merely pointed out the falseness of a statement that 1) all sports games are equally challenging to abstract, model, and program; 2) contradicted the opinion that The Show is an ideal sports video game; and 3) questioned GaintBlue's motivation for making two statements that I regard as obviously false. You may be right about Madden being built on a decrepit foundation. Since I haven't seen the code or how it is organized, I have no way of knowing. But what I don't understand is if you really think so, why you waste time here, instead trying to make a different game, better game. That's something, as opposed to propagandizing, I would have respect for.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by mlb61

Typical post by you: Overblown rhetoric masquerading as analysis. No doubt you've spent time creating doucuments espousing your basic tenet that the current development can never make the game better. Despite that view you contine to be emotionally invested in the game (witness your emotional rhetoric). The game doesn't play you want it to, viva la revolution! Where do you get your sense of entitlement from?

There is no sense of entitlement. You are the one who attacked me. I have no issue with anyone who enjoys the game. The fact is that I am speaking based on experiences and discussions over 10 years. You don't like what I am saying because it does not align with your opinion. Therefore, you decided yourself to take issue with me and resort to a personal attack rather than a discussion as to why you disagree. It upsets you that you are not getting affirmation from others that the developers are top notch. I spoke nothing of a revolution either. I am not emotionally invested in Madden, I am emotionally invested in having a quality, simulation football game to play. There is a difference, and there is only one current game.

What's even more comical, is that you've been around here for how long? 2 months?

I've been playing football games since the early 80s. I've seen all kinds. There have been some good, great and poor games. The numerous elements that are just flat out missing from Madden in 2014 is very telling. Not to mention the number of things that just flat out don't work correctly. Most, if not all, of these things have been implemented in past football games - including madden itself.

Giving developers 10 years to pull their proverbial heads out is more than enough time to show they can implement something special don't you think? Especially with the resources available to them and their gaming empire. I haven't seen the source code either, but based on discussions I've had with people who have and people who have both worked on the game and been consultants for it, it's not a pretty sight. That's 25 years of legacy code for you.

As for working towards a better game, sorry to burst your bubble bud, but many people here (and other places) have done more to try to do that in the last 7 years than you could comprehend. After nearly a decade of broken and false promises, numerous 3 year plans, sloppy and poorly implemented games, people tend to get a bit jaded.

Like I said before, if you enjoy the game (which is all that really matters), feel free to voice that opinion and back it up with why you do. That's what "discussion" is all about. However, by attacking me (and others) the way you have, you are simply pushing your "agenda" and impressing no one.

[mlb61]

Quote: Originally Posted by GiantBlue76

There is no sense of entitlement. You are the one who attacked me. I have no issue with anyone who enjoys the game. The fact is that I am speaking based on experiences and discussions over 10 years. You don't like what I am saying because it does not align with your opinion. Therefore, you decided yourself to take issue with me and resort to a personal attack rather than a discussion as to why you disagree. It upsets you that you are not getting affirmation from others that the developers are top notch. I spoke nothing of a revolution either. I am not emotionally invested in Madden, I am emotionally invested in having a quality, simulation football game to play. There is a difference, and there is only one current game. What's even more comical, is that you've been around here for how long? 2 months? I've been playing football games since the early 80s. I've seen all kinds. There have been some good, great and poor games. The numerous elements that are just flat out missing from Madden in 2014 is very telling. Not to mention the number of things that just flat out don't work correctly. Most, if not all, of these things have been implemented in past football games - including madden itself. Giving developers 10 years to pull their proverbial heads out is more than enough time to show they can implement something special don't you think? Especially with the resources available to them and their gaming empire. I haven't seen the source code either, but based on discussions I've had with people who have and people who have both worked on the game and been consultants for it, it's not a pretty sight. That's 25 years of legacy code for you. As for working towards a better game, sorry to burst your bubble bud, but many people here (and other places) have done more to try to do that in the last 7 years than you could comprehend. After nearly a decade of broken and false promises, numerous 3 year plans, sloppy and poorly implemented games, people tend to get a bit jaded. Like I said before, if you enjoy the game (which is all that really matters), feel free to voice that opinion and back it up with why you do. That's what "discussion" is all about. However, by attacking me (and others) the way you have, you are simply pushing your "agenda" and impressing no one.

If attacking you is pointing out the repetitive nature of your Madden posts and what is in my view incorrect information, then I am guilty. I most definitely have not attacked you personally. I find your behavior in preaching the message of a broken game and a broken development team to be annoying and distracting (if the goal is a better game). What does how long I've been here matter? You boast of playing football games since the early 80s? I've been playing football, and playing and making football, games since the early 50s. My only agenda is to make the best I can of a Madden I wish were far different and had far fewer loose ends. I don't see you trying to do that. I see you trying to recruit others to your point of view, which is that Madden and its development team are completely, hopelessly broken. If I believed that, I would find another football game to play, even if I had to make it myself with pencil and paper.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by mlb61

If attacking you is pointing out the repetitive nature of your Madden posts and what is in my view incorrect information, then I am guilty. I most definitely have not attacked you personally. I find your behavior in preaching the message of a broken game and a broken development team to be annoying and distracting (if the goal is a better game). What does how long I've been here matter? You boast of playing football games since the early 80s? I've been playing football, and playing and making football, games since the early 50s. My only agenda is to make the best I can of a Madden I wish were far different and had far fewer loose ends. I don't see you trying to do that. I see you trying to recruit others to your point of view, which is that Madden and its development team are completely, hopelessly broken. If I believed that, I would find another football game to play, even if I had to make it myself with pencil and paper.

Recruiting? Who is recruiting and what are we recruiting for? Is it the secret "Madden ***** Club"? Preaching? Where's the preacher? I'm all in!

[Acts 4 12]

Quote: Originally Posted by awffltony77

It's just so, so broken. But beyond that. How we all sit on here the past few years, trying everything anyone can think of to manipulate this game into even a remotely realistic NFL football experience. And only a few give up (I did last year, for the first time in my life, which would span back to the 1st Madden releases on the Genesis), and I'm about to again, but hundreds and hundreds work diligently to try to squeeze just a little of what we all want out of this. But the craziest part is, like.....how convinced one group of people can be on a concept, or a theory, and then you read one post down, and it's a whole seperate set of people, sold on the same problem fix with complete opposite numbers. 100 pass block, 0 pass block......85 Intentional Grounding, 5 Intentional Grounding...... This is seriously driving me out of my skull. Even if I do set up a slider/theory combo that seems ok, I can't enjoy one single second of it, because I'm constantly second guessing everything about the game. And this isn't entirely "slideritis", I'm usually pretty good about dealing with that. This company has become a joke. They owe us, all of us, not just $65 for their annual broken games, but for the ungodly amount of time everyone ultimately wastes on this. Remember, for every one of the 2 or so dozen of you main slider guys, there is another dozen or two reading along, testing endlessly, and wasting their lives.......This sucks, all we want is a decent game. Man, I sure wish 2k could still make one, this would have been the 10th or 11th one......Arg, sorry for the rant about crap you already know, and thanks for everyones hard work......

I was thinking along these same lines the other day. It's been practically four months since the release of this game and I spend more time on this site (trying to fix the game) than I do actually playing.

[Acts 4 12]

Quote: Originally Posted by cpic1

Only a "*****" would say this game isn't any good. If you watch NFL games every week this game nails it! 1-2 penalties between both teams per game, spot on! QBs completing 90% of their passes, spot on! Offensive lineman coming out of their stance and staring ahead while the guy right in front of them goes passed them to drill the QB, spot on! Defensive backs spinning completely around on simple routes, spot on! I can't imagine why anyone would say this game isn't realistic. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't think this game is terrible by any stretch of the imagination. It's quite good, which is why I think most people are frustrated with it. The new patch also significantly changed how the game played with previous slider sets, so now it's like starting over again. All I have been trying to achieve from day one is make player attributes actually matter and I haven't been able to do so.